Comments on: Commentary: Revoke Mormon Church’s Tax Exemption?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:20:00 +0000

I just wanted to clarify a few things you mentioned in your post. I’ve been Mormon my whole life and have attended “tithing settlement” annually with my bishop (the leader of the congregation). At this settlement you sit with the bishop and declare whether you are a full tithe payer or not. No documents are required. They do not look at your tax return. It is a completely trust-based system. You either say you are a full tithe payer or say you aren’t. That’s it.

Those that have left the church are not “pursued” after they have left in order to get their tithing. In fact, active members are not pursued. There are many, many members of the Mormon church who do not pay tithing, or only pay a partial tithe.

Also, I don’t believe that the Mormon church used any of its tithing funds to support the Yes on 8 campaign. I’m not 100% on this, because I have been unable to find an official statement, but from what I’ve been able to gather from those I know in California, the Mormon church encouraged its members from the pulpit (a letter from the president of the church was read) to support the Yes on 8 campaign in whatever way they could. Mormons, being a very obedient people, then freely gave of their time and money to the campaign. The money they gave was directly to the Yes on 8 campaign, and was completely separate from tithing.

By: Allison

Allison — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:09:00 +0000

In general:
Let's stop trying to figure out who to blame for the passage of prop 8. There is no one group that we can point the finger at and say, you made this happen.

It happened, and it happened because individual people decided, whatever their reasons, that they wanted to curtail the rights of same-sex couples to marry.

The only way to reach individual people is to actually reach out to them individually, not going after their churches.

You want to change someone's opinion? Live openly and talk about it.

By: Steven

Steven — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:27:00 +0000

It wasn’t the Mormon church that voted to take away your marriage rights. It was the state of California. Boycott California.

By: John

John — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:02:00 +0000

I would also point out that one of the key claims of the Yes campaign was that allowing gays access to marriage would somehow jeopardize the tax exempt status of churches that refused to marry gay couples. So, while I appreciate the effort here (fuck the Mormon church), we should be very careful that we don’t provide fodder for what was a bogus claim in the campaign. Going after churches’ tax exempt status thus both a) is unlikely to work, and b) may provoke an even stronger backlash because we’re doing exactly what the Yes campaign said we would do.

By: Kirk

Kirk — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:36:00 +0000

Although I completely disagree with the Mormon Church for their actions, I don't understand what good this will do.

If taxed, they will just find another way to make up the money, perhaps by increasing tithes.

I feel like we are branding this church as an enemy, just like they have done to us.

This fight won't be one by taxing and intimidating Mormons. We won't find victory by lighting torches and smashing windows.

It can only be won through understanding. The people who said yes on Propostion 8 or who oppose gay marriage in any other state have yet to grasp that rights are being infringed.

They will continue to believe we are second class citizens if we attack or provoke. Now more than ever, we need them to see we are humans deserving of these rights.

By: Andrew Pendleton

Andrew Pendleton — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:53:00 +0000

Such a letter does exist and is available on the church’s website. The church is worth a pile of money, though, and didn’t get that way by being stupid… they’re exceptionally shrewd about what they say, and about what they do with their money. Speech endorsing a *candidate* is problematic for them, and jeopardizes their tax-exempt status, but lobbying (into which this is lumped) is more nebulously defined in tax law, and odds are, they haven’t done anything wrong, at least from a legal perspective. We can sign petitions, but the IRS has pretty broad latitude in deciding what it investigates… further, even if some law or rule obligates them to pursue allegations (which, frankly, I doubt, though I’d have to investigate further), I don’t think individuals whose complaints were ignored would have any remedy. Tax disputes are between the taxed (or non-taxed, as the case may be) individual or organization and the IRS. Third parties have no standing to being legal action.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:51:00 +0000

Also, did not the Supreme Court made the case was money donated to political campaigns equal free speech? Free speech, Political speech, Religious speech. On a law textbook you can make the case that they are different, but how do you work that out in real life?

Even if the church sent a letter encouraging its members to donate, it wouldn't cross the line into political speech. After all, marriage is a sacrament and taking a position on Prop. 8, negative or positive, is what you would expect a church to do. One could say that the LDS church coerced its members, but that would be a bitch to argue in court.

I think tangible proof would have to be found of using church funds themselves. So, like with Capone, we need to get the accountant.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:34:00 +0000

Did you hear there was a memo sent to all Mormons churches tell them to encourage all members to donate for Yes on Prop 8?

By: Andrew Pendleton

Andrew Pendleton — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:14:00 +0000

This post seems to reflect a common misconception about Mormons and prop 8. Tithing funds didn’t pay for Yes on 8. The church, itself, gave little or no money directly to the campaign. Rather, it encouraged its members to donate directly. For that reason, the tax law case is much harder to make than you suggest.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:13:00 +0000

Thank you for providing the IRS form link. Mine is completed, printed, and will be mailed tomorrow!