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	<title>Comments on: Commentary: No Fats or Fems: A Gay Culture that is at War with Itself</title>
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	<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html</link>
	<description>For Everyone Over the Rainbow</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 01:14:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-55122</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-55122</guid>
		<description>I agree with the previous poster who commented on the fact that is the negativity associated with these terms more so than the terms themselves. A minor exception to that would be the &quot;fat&quot; thing, because it is generally considered unhealthy or &quot;bad&quot; to be overweight. That does not, however, give people the right to be so rude about it. 

It&#039;s an unfortunate side effect of internet culture - where people think they can do and say whatever they want because they are virtually anonymous (although, I don&#039;t think I&#039;d want my photograph associated with such pejorative language). I think people have ALWAYS been this way, it&#039;s just easier for people to be jerks online. 

My overall motto is to put absolutely NO FORMS OF NEGATIVITY in my profile whatsoever. It says a lot about a person that when given a small amount of space to describe oneself, that they choose to list all of the things they DON&#039;T like. I&#039;m Hispanic - yet I wouldn&#039;t ever consider dating/hooking up with a guy who is actively seeking to hook up with Hispanic people. Liking the race, is still racism because you are objectifying it and using it as criteria for why you want to get together with someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the previous poster who commented on the fact that is the negativity associated with these terms more so than the terms themselves. A minor exception to that would be the &#8220;fat&#8221; thing, because it is generally considered unhealthy or &#8220;bad&#8221; to be overweight. That does not, however, give people the right to be so rude about it. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s an unfortunate side effect of internet culture &#8211; where people think they can do and say whatever they want because they are virtually anonymous (although, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d want my photograph associated with such pejorative language). I think people have ALWAYS been this way, it&#8217;s just easier for people to be jerks online. </p>
<p>My overall motto is to put absolutely NO FORMS OF NEGATIVITY in my profile whatsoever. It says a lot about a person that when given a small amount of space to describe oneself, that they choose to list all of the things they DON&#8217;T like. I&#8217;m Hispanic &#8211; yet I wouldn&#8217;t ever consider dating/hooking up with a guy who is actively seeking to hook up with Hispanic people. Liking the race, is still racism because you are objectifying it and using it as criteria for why you want to get together with someone.</p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-55062</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-55062</guid>
		<description>By the way I forgot to mention wayne your awesome I. Looooove your comment you hit the nail on the head about what needed to be said your comment I hope opened a lot of peoples eyes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way I forgot to mention wayne your awesome I. Looooove your comment you hit the nail on the head about what needed to be said your comment I hope opened a lot of peoples eyes</p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-55061</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-55061</guid>
		<description>I have to agree on this I came out when I was 19 and I tried to be out in the gay community more but I have found it to be really difficult for me and I am 23 now I am 5&#039;3 chubby and black I would say I am more in between with being fem and masculine but being short and not skinny is not easy in the gay community I have more straight friends then gay friends and and from being so frustrated I have been always told to my face and on sites that your really cute and a great guy but your short and fat so therefore I can&#039;t look at you as a friend or someone I could date or hookup with. 

I don&#039;t get it there are guys that just have attidues for no reason idk how it is in other places in the world but in nyc its really difficult out here and I have been called annoying and for a long time I thought it was just my personality but then I started hearing the same thing from other gay guys in the community and from there I knew someone was wrong and it wasn&#039;t me. I feel we need to be more united and start being more open to EVERYONE I get everyone has there preference however I feel like the majority of the gay communitys prefrence is 90 percent skinny and tall. 

When I first lost weight like 3 years ago I for sure noticed a different aproach towards me there were guys who tried talking to me who I used to talk to and all of a sudden I loose weight and now I am &quot;attractive&quot;? Something has to change keep in mind I have gained some weight back but I have been told alone people who are straight that I am not even that big how are you single and I tell them about how the gay community is and there in shock and ask why I have accepted that is how the gay community is but I feel its just not right</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree on this I came out when I was 19 and I tried to be out in the gay community more but I have found it to be really difficult for me and I am 23 now I am 5&#8217;3 chubby and black I would say I am more in between with being fem and masculine but being short and not skinny is not easy in the gay community I have more straight friends then gay friends and and from being so frustrated I have been always told to my face and on sites that your really cute and a great guy but your short and fat so therefore I can&#8217;t look at you as a friend or someone I could date or hookup with. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get it there are guys that just have attidues for no reason idk how it is in other places in the world but in nyc its really difficult out here and I have been called annoying and for a long time I thought it was just my personality but then I started hearing the same thing from other gay guys in the community and from there I knew someone was wrong and it wasn&#8217;t me. I feel we need to be more united and start being more open to EVERYONE I get everyone has there preference however I feel like the majority of the gay communitys prefrence is 90 percent skinny and tall. </p>
<p>When I first lost weight like 3 years ago I for sure noticed a different aproach towards me there were guys who tried talking to me who I used to talk to and all of a sudden I loose weight and now I am &#8220;attractive&#8221;? Something has to change keep in mind I have gained some weight back but I have been told alone people who are straight that I am not even that big how are you single and I tell them about how the gay community is and there in shock and ask why I have accepted that is how the gay community is but I feel its just not right</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-55035</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-55035</guid>
		<description>Great article!  Something that no one here has mentioned yet is narcissism.  I think narcissism makes men act spoiled and self-centered, especially after the childhood rejection us gays often experience.  We grow up to feel entitled because of our past experiences.  It makes us feel we are trying to make up for something, and we become self-absorbed and defensive.  If we want a muscular, butch man, then nothing will stop us from getting it!

Sadly, this view is all too common.  We need to overcome these pressures and realize not everyone is a muscular, sex-addicted alpha male.  Let&#039;s focus on the good qualities in a partner (honesty, trust, etc.) instead of the shallow.  Beauty fades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!  Something that no one here has mentioned yet is narcissism.  I think narcissism makes men act spoiled and self-centered, especially after the childhood rejection us gays often experience.  We grow up to feel entitled because of our past experiences.  It makes us feel we are trying to make up for something, and we become self-absorbed and defensive.  If we want a muscular, butch man, then nothing will stop us from getting it!</p>
<p>Sadly, this view is all too common.  We need to overcome these pressures and realize not everyone is a muscular, sex-addicted alpha male.  Let&#8217;s focus on the good qualities in a partner (honesty, trust, etc.) instead of the shallow.  Beauty fades.</p>
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		<title>By: hatebeingay21</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-33519</link>
		<dc:creator>hatebeingay21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-33519</guid>
		<description>I agree with this ad not only am I a twink. Im sick of guys who use me for my looks or ass. We say we hate when straight guys are mean to us but we are the bigger bullies to each other. N stop this twink on twink action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this ad not only am I a twink. Im sick of guys who use me for my looks or ass. We say we hate when straight guys are mean to us but we are the bigger bullies to each other. N stop this twink on twink action.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-29698</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-29698</guid>
		<description>no fats no fems :  
I am on the heavy side: tough meeeting men sometimes

but these arrogant bastards is ruin it for other people
whne I see heterosexuals having   sexin there cars and goverment 
vehicles at parks  my phoned is dialed into 911

thats all these people 
and gay men 2
 men an another person devasted a park

now the community runs through trails where gays hang out take pictures
or an undercover cop sevral times a week..
so if you cannot play fair you cannot play..

henry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no fats no fems :<br />
I am on the heavy side: tough meeeting men sometimes</p>
<p>but these arrogant bastards is ruin it for other people<br />
whne I see heterosexuals having   sexin there cars and goverment<br />
vehicles at parks  my phoned is dialed into 911</p>
<p>thats all these people<br />
and gay men 2<br />
 men an another person devasted a park</p>
<p>now the community runs through trails where gays hang out take pictures<br />
or an undercover cop sevral times a week..<br />
so if you cannot play fair you cannot play..</p>
<p>henry</p>
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		<title>By: pink_minx</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-21063</link>
		<dc:creator>pink_minx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-21063</guid>
		<description>I am guessing from the first post that this is a mainly American site?

Interesting reading guys, thank you.

Firstly can I state the primary reaction to the opening post is &quot;your &#039;gay culture&#039; appears to be male only?!&quot;

I identify as a gay female. I also Identify as very femme. My gf is what over here is called a soft butch (not sure if you have the same terminolgy?). With regard to &quot;We need to stop using terms like fats, femmes, twinks, and trolls&quot; why? we have no need to lose the terms, we have a need to lose the negativity attached to the terms. For some people they like their labels, it helps them identify in an already very complicated scene.

I happily identify as a femme, my best mate&#039;s bf (OMG a lesbian who is friends with a gay male....fnacy that!) is massivly into his pet term &quot;twinks&quot; It is not the language that is wrong, but our perception and induction into the abuse of the language that is wrong.

I am all for keeping the language and reclaiming the pride attached to some of the terms.

Raising a glass to all the poofs, stone dykes, butches, leather boys etc etc keep your titles if you are happy with them, it identifies our own unique diversities

x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am guessing from the first post that this is a mainly American site?</p>
<p>Interesting reading guys, thank you.</p>
<p>Firstly can I state the primary reaction to the opening post is &#8220;your &#8216;gay culture&#8217; appears to be male only?!&#8221;</p>
<p>I identify as a gay female. I also Identify as very femme. My gf is what over here is called a soft butch (not sure if you have the same terminolgy?). With regard to &#8220;We need to stop using terms like fats, femmes, twinks, and trolls&#8221; why? we have no need to lose the terms, we have a need to lose the negativity attached to the terms. For some people they like their labels, it helps them identify in an already very complicated scene.</p>
<p>I happily identify as a femme, my best mate&#8217;s bf (OMG a lesbian who is friends with a gay male&#8230;.fnacy that!) is massivly into his pet term &#8220;twinks&#8221; It is not the language that is wrong, but our perception and induction into the abuse of the language that is wrong.</p>
<p>I am all for keeping the language and reclaiming the pride attached to some of the terms.</p>
<p>Raising a glass to all the poofs, stone dykes, butches, leather boys etc etc keep your titles if you are happy with them, it identifies our own unique diversities</p>
<p>x</p>
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		<title>By: Unknown</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-18325</link>
		<dc:creator>Unknown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-18325</guid>
		<description>Nice strawman. Maybe someone born yesterday will buy it. No one asked anyone to have sex with anyone they aren&#039;t attracted to. Forest/Trees 
The real and larger issue is the normalization of superficiality derived from the very pernicious effects of a culture of objectification. Are all feminine guys alike? Do all chubby or African American men look alike? Despite the voices of those toeing the gay party line on any issue of sexuality, there is nothing &quot;natural&quot; about being attracted to / repelled by isolated features rather than a whole person. We are moving into a society of fetishism. Is that ideal? A few evidently believe this topic to be a piece in political correctness. But in reality, it&#039;s the gay ideology that as long as the criteria of &quot;consenting adults&quot; is satisfied, there is nothing that need to be challenged in regards to human sexuality. And I know that many are deathly afraid of having their ideology questioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice strawman. Maybe someone born yesterday will buy it. No one asked anyone to have sex with anyone they aren&#8217;t attracted to. Forest/Trees<br />
The real and larger issue is the normalization of superficiality derived from the very pernicious effects of a culture of objectification. Are all feminine guys alike? Do all chubby or African American men look alike? Despite the voices of those toeing the gay party line on any issue of sexuality, there is nothing &#8220;natural&#8221; about being attracted to / repelled by isolated features rather than a whole person. We are moving into a society of fetishism. Is that ideal? A few evidently believe this topic to be a piece in political correctness. But in reality, it&#8217;s the gay ideology that as long as the criteria of &#8220;consenting adults&#8221; is satisfied, there is nothing that need to be challenged in regards to human sexuality. And I know that many are deathly afraid of having their ideology questioned.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-18159</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-18159</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day, some people just don&#039;t like femme guys.  That&#039;s just how it is.  Some people also don&#039;t conform to the gay stereotype.  If a society where everyone has sex with anyone regardless of attraction to one another is your idea of an ideal &quot;gay culture&quot;, you better believe that we&#039;ll be at war with ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day, some people just don&#8217;t like femme guys.  That&#8217;s just how it is.  Some people also don&#8217;t conform to the gay stereotype.  If a society where everyone has sex with anyone regardless of attraction to one another is your idea of an ideal &#8220;gay culture&#8221;, you better believe that we&#8217;ll be at war with ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-17787</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-17787</guid>
		<description>Thanks Karl!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Karl!</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-17379</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-17379</guid>
		<description>Wayne I REALLY loved ALL your comments. KUDOS TO YOU!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne I REALLY loved ALL your comments. KUDOS TO YOU!</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-17378</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-17378</guid>
		<description>I came out at 16 in 1983 and I thought &quot;finally the previous 10 years of teasing and bullying are over&quot;. Well was I in for a big surprise because the gay community has been worse,far worse. If you don&#039;t look like a model on the cover of any men&#039;s magazine, don&#039;t even think about being part of the &quot;in crowd&quot; or the &quot;A&quot; list as I call it(unless your filthy rich, they will over look a 33 inch waist if you have cash). What is worse is that the &quot;in crowd&quot; takes great pleasure in being as bitchy and mean as possible to anyone not in the &quot;in crowd&quot; (Go on any gay men&#039;s site and the lists of dont&#039;s and wont&#039;s is amazing and really bitchy).  As an adult I have never fit in or felt like part of any gay community. I started weight lifting when I turned 28 and during my 30&#039;s I did get more attention and have some incredible sex with some hot guys, but nobody wanted me for anything more than sex. In fact the majority of the guys I was now getting attention from where so screwed up emotionally that a relationship was impossible for them. It&#039;s really sad, all looks and no substance.  As I entered my 40&#039;s I rejected the &quot;Golds Gym&quot; lifestyle and secluded myself to just a small group of close friends, other &quot;outsiders&quot; who don&#039;t cut the mustard of unrealistic gay standards.  I&#039;m 44 now, I work out 3 to 4 times a week, I&#039;m not a drama queen, I have a great job, nice car, but at any qay bar or function I attend its like I dont exsist so I just don&#039;t go to those places anymore. I order in for sex and the only gay places I go are resturants and some certain shops.  I feel far more comfortable living in a straight setting in the burbs then I do living in the gay ghetto, which is where I live now, but Im considering another move out of the city, where there is a mixture of people.  I&#039;m really excited to run across this site, of course Im not a twink but I do appreciate those who feel the way I felt at a young age and I hope that those in their 20&#039;s now have a better opportunity to live a fuller and happier life not trying to fit in with a very narrow group of people, who I think are probably the most unhappy of all of us. Just be YOU and live a life with all people in all sectors of society and don&#039;t judge yourself by &quot;Gay&quot; standards, because they are very shallow and unrealistic for the greater population of us at large.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came out at 16 in 1983 and I thought &#8220;finally the previous 10 years of teasing and bullying are over&#8221;. Well was I in for a big surprise because the gay community has been worse,far worse. If you don&#8217;t look like a model on the cover of any men&#8217;s magazine, don&#8217;t even think about being part of the &#8220;in crowd&#8221; or the &#8220;A&#8221; list as I call it(unless your filthy rich, they will over look a 33 inch waist if you have cash). What is worse is that the &#8220;in crowd&#8221; takes great pleasure in being as bitchy and mean as possible to anyone not in the &#8220;in crowd&#8221; (Go on any gay men&#8217;s site and the lists of dont&#8217;s and wont&#8217;s is amazing and really bitchy).  As an adult I have never fit in or felt like part of any gay community. I started weight lifting when I turned 28 and during my 30&#8242;s I did get more attention and have some incredible sex with some hot guys, but nobody wanted me for anything more than sex. In fact the majority of the guys I was now getting attention from where so screwed up emotionally that a relationship was impossible for them. It&#8217;s really sad, all looks and no substance.  As I entered my 40&#8242;s I rejected the &#8220;Golds Gym&#8221; lifestyle and secluded myself to just a small group of close friends, other &#8220;outsiders&#8221; who don&#8217;t cut the mustard of unrealistic gay standards.  I&#8217;m 44 now, I work out 3 to 4 times a week, I&#8217;m not a drama queen, I have a great job, nice car, but at any qay bar or function I attend its like I dont exsist so I just don&#8217;t go to those places anymore. I order in for sex and the only gay places I go are resturants and some certain shops.  I feel far more comfortable living in a straight setting in the burbs then I do living in the gay ghetto, which is where I live now, but Im considering another move out of the city, where there is a mixture of people.  I&#8217;m really excited to run across this site, of course Im not a twink but I do appreciate those who feel the way I felt at a young age and I hope that those in their 20&#8242;s now have a better opportunity to live a fuller and happier life not trying to fit in with a very narrow group of people, who I think are probably the most unhappy of all of us. Just be YOU and live a life with all people in all sectors of society and don&#8217;t judge yourself by &#8220;Gay&#8221; standards, because they are very shallow and unrealistic for the greater population of us at large.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson Goff</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-16216</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson Goff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-16216</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;@Chris Kaos &quot;If you don’t fit the above description (9 out of 10 don’t) then find what makes you special.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Good on you. Why blame muscle heads for going to the gym, then cry when they&#039;re not interested because you&#039;ve never been. If you&#039;re fat and find it&#039;s just as OK as Oprah says, don&#039;t put yourself down or do it to anyone else. And ignore anyone who&#039;s doing it to you because they don&#039;t feel OK.

Our ideal love muffin is also often our ideal self. You&#039;re better off  to pursue the characteristics you admire, rather than depending on fate to hook you up with them?

At one time, I could bench my own weight. Bad news is that was 230 pounds on a 5&#039;6&quot; frame. I&#039;ve been to  both extremes. From a 32&quot; waist to 54&quot; and back. That&#039;s when I stopped worshiping looks and started looking for kindness, honesty, decency. You know what&#039;s goony: when I find someone has those traits, I find them very appealing. The other thing that makes someone attractive is when they like me. LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>@Chris Kaos &#8220;If you don’t fit the above description (9 out of 10 don’t) then find what makes you special.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Good on you. Why blame muscle heads for going to the gym, then cry when they&#8217;re not interested because you&#8217;ve never been. If you&#8217;re fat and find it&#8217;s just as OK as Oprah says, don&#8217;t put yourself down or do it to anyone else. And ignore anyone who&#8217;s doing it to you because they don&#8217;t feel OK.</p>
<p>Our ideal love muffin is also often our ideal self. You&#8217;re better off  to pursue the characteristics you admire, rather than depending on fate to hook you up with them?</p>
<p>At one time, I could bench my own weight. Bad news is that was 230 pounds on a 5&#8217;6&#8243; frame. I&#8217;ve been to  both extremes. From a 32&#8243; waist to 54&#8243; and back. That&#8217;s when I stopped worshiping looks and started looking for kindness, honesty, decency. You know what&#8217;s goony: when I find someone has those traits, I find them very appealing. The other thing that makes someone attractive is when they like me. LOL</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15024</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15024</guid>
		<description>Glad I could be of service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad I could be of service.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15023</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15023</guid>
		<description>I think I see it all clearly now.  I grasp what you say, and disagree.  Thanks for your input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I see it all clearly now.  I grasp what you say, and disagree.  Thanks for your input.</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15022</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15022</guid>
		<description>What clear is that you still did not grasp what I said. I submitted my suspicion that it has no biological basis, and followed that even if it does, that would not make it neutral or good. Where do you get the idea that I believe &quot;very strongly&quot;? Is is because I am responding to ALL of your comments to ME? I believe what I do based on my observations and experiences. What do I derive? Gee, an explanation to phenomena. Is that answer not redundant enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What clear is that you still did not grasp what I said. I submitted my suspicion that it has no biological basis, and followed that even if it does, that would not make it neutral or good. Where do you get the idea that I believe &#8220;very strongly&#8221;? Is is because I am responding to ALL of your comments to ME? I believe what I do based on my observations and experiences. What do I derive? Gee, an explanation to phenomena. Is that answer not redundant enough?</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15021</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15021</guid>
		<description>@FatAlbert:  I don&#039;t think the question is all that weird.  Clearly you embrace the opinion that the &quot;excessive fastidiousness&quot; of gay men has no biological basis, and believe it very strongly.  Why do you believe it very strongly?  What benefit do you derive from this belief?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@FatAlbert:  I don&#8217;t think the question is all that weird.  Clearly you embrace the opinion that the &#8220;excessive fastidiousness&#8221; of gay men has no biological basis, and believe it very strongly.  Why do you believe it very strongly?  What benefit do you derive from this belief?</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15017</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15017</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a weird question. I could ask you what you get out of believing that it&#039;s biological, and that IF it is, how that makes it a good or neutral thing, ipso facto. Seriously, what would I get believing what I believe that is any different from you get in believing what you believe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a weird question. I could ask you what you get out of believing that it&#8217;s biological, and that IF it is, how that makes it a good or neutral thing, ipso facto. Seriously, what would I get believing what I believe that is any different from you get in believing what you believe?</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15016</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15016</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Clearly you hold your beliefs strongly.  May I ask, what is your stake in maintaining your argument?  What do you get from believing the &quot;excessive fastidiousness&quot; of gay men with regard to potential mates is not rooted in biology?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Clearly you hold your beliefs strongly.  May I ask, what is your stake in maintaining your argument?  What do you get from believing the &#8220;excessive fastidiousness&#8221; of gay men with regard to potential mates is not rooted in biology?</p>
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		<title>By: biology minor is occationally useful</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15014</link>
		<dc:creator>biology minor is occationally useful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15014</guid>
		<description>Yeah, second the wikipedia link. Go read it. &quot;Physically fit&quot; is not the same thing as &quot;capable of successfully producing and raising offspring&quot;. &quot;Survival of the fittest&quot; is a very poor statement of the workings of evolution; attributing colloquial meaning to the words used makes it borderline nonsensical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, second the wikipedia link. Go read it. &#8220;Physically fit&#8221; is not the same thing as &#8220;capable of successfully producing and raising offspring&#8221;. &#8220;Survival of the fittest&#8221; is a very poor statement of the workings of evolution; attributing colloquial meaning to the words used makes it borderline nonsensical.</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15012</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15012</guid>
		<description>Well if you choose not to &quot;whine&quot; and are happy with that choice, more power to you. But if you are insinuating that that&#039;s what I am doing, I suggest you get a grip and come back to this discussion when you are mature enough to have an adult conversation without the needless hyperbole and revelation of your own emotional issues related to your weight. Stand by your &quot;assessment&quot; if you like, but I must tell you that it hasn&#039;t addressed anything that I&#039;ve said. 

And for future reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_%28biology%29</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if you choose not to &#8220;whine&#8221; and are happy with that choice, more power to you. But if you are insinuating that that&#8217;s what I am doing, I suggest you get a grip and come back to this discussion when you are mature enough to have an adult conversation without the needless hyperbole and revelation of your own emotional issues related to your weight. Stand by your &#8220;assessment&#8221; if you like, but I must tell you that it hasn&#8217;t addressed anything that I&#8217;ve said. </p>
<p>And for future reference: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_%28biology%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_%28biology%29</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15008</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15008</guid>
		<description>@FatAlbert, I stand by my assessment.  What nature does is not beholden to my logic or desires.  It will operate by its own internal logic.  Human beings, homo- and heterosexual are inately attracted to physically fit people, even though that attraction can sometimes limit the number of people one could possibly have sex with.

I myself am overweight.  Now, I could waste my time griping that homosexual men should get over their hangups and make themselves find me attractive, or I can just accept that it&#039;s not going to happen, and then move on to accepting either being overweight and having a lower chance of finding a mate, or raising my chances by losing weight.  Either course of action is up to me, and therefore choosing between them is my responsibility.

Whining that homos should be finding me attractive because there&#039;s no reason for them not to defies reality and is counterproductive.  It can only lead to resentment or worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@FatAlbert, I stand by my assessment.  What nature does is not beholden to my logic or desires.  It will operate by its own internal logic.  Human beings, homo- and heterosexual are inately attracted to physically fit people, even though that attraction can sometimes limit the number of people one could possibly have sex with.</p>
<p>I myself am overweight.  Now, I could waste my time griping that homosexual men should get over their hangups and make themselves find me attractive, or I can just accept that it&#8217;s not going to happen, and then move on to accepting either being overweight and having a lower chance of finding a mate, or raising my chances by losing weight.  Either course of action is up to me, and therefore choosing between them is my responsibility.</p>
<p>Whining that homos should be finding me attractive because there&#8217;s no reason for them not to defies reality and is counterproductive.  It can only lead to resentment or worse.</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15005</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15005</guid>
		<description>Papa, were you in such a rush to claim that my statements were &quot;self-serving&quot;, and &quot;obviously&quot; so (I wonder if the &quot;FatAlbert&quot; name is what made it so clear) that you read what you wanted? But that is not how reading comprehension works. Please see my post dated 16 September 2009 at 5:25 pm for what *I* have disputed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Papa, were you in such a rush to claim that my statements were &#8220;self-serving&#8221;, and &#8220;obviously&#8221; so (I wonder if the &#8220;FatAlbert&#8221; name is what made it so clear) that you read what you wanted? But that is not how reading comprehension works. Please see my post dated 16 September 2009 at 5:25 pm for what *I* have disputed.</p>
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		<title>By: FatAlbert</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-15004</link>
		<dc:creator>FatAlbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-15004</guid>
		<description>Kyle, you continue to walk right past the pink elephant in the room. If homosexuals were &quot;programmed&quot; to seek fit partners, they would not be seeking someone of the same sex in the first place, but instead the opposite sex. This is the second time you&#039;ve referred to things in nature not being beholden to human logic, and now &quot;desire&quot;. First of all, if you read either of my posts thoroughly, there is no way you would have had the idea that either was my goal, simply because I made a speculation - something you have done yourself. For example, what actual proof do you have that all human are &quot;programmed to seek fit partners&quot;? I suppose I&#039;m entitled to assume that because it&#039;s been a long-standing logical theory about heterosexuals, your lofty desire has you concluding that homosexuals fit into this scheme. It&#039;s quite absurd to eschew the role of logic in understanding nature. Of course, logic alone is not sufficient, but luckily there are people who make a living out of researching and experimenting in such fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle, you continue to walk right past the pink elephant in the room. If homosexuals were &#8220;programmed&#8221; to seek fit partners, they would not be seeking someone of the same sex in the first place, but instead the opposite sex. This is the second time you&#8217;ve referred to things in nature not being beholden to human logic, and now &#8220;desire&#8221;. First of all, if you read either of my posts thoroughly, there is no way you would have had the idea that either was my goal, simply because I made a speculation &#8211; something you have done yourself. For example, what actual proof do you have that all human are &#8220;programmed to seek fit partners&#8221;? I suppose I&#8217;m entitled to assume that because it&#8217;s been a long-standing logical theory about heterosexuals, your lofty desire has you concluding that homosexuals fit into this scheme. It&#8217;s quite absurd to eschew the role of logic in understanding nature. Of course, logic alone is not sufficient, but luckily there are people who make a living out of researching and experimenting in such fields.</p>
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		<title>By: Queer Blogger</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/11/no-fats-or-fems-gay-culture-that-is-at.html#comment-14998</link>
		<dc:creator>Queer Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/no-fats-or-fems-a-gay-culture-that-is-at-war-with-itself/#comment-14998</guid>
		<description>I think what all of this boils down to is this:  we need to work finding value in others even if we don&#039;t want to sleep with them.  

So often queer people and maybe even humans in general (but definitely queer people, because we&#039;re always looking for that needle in the gaystack) we dismiss people who we don&#039;t find sexually attractive.  We dehumanize them to the point where it&#039;s okay to be mean to them and shit all over them (metaphorically speaking).

The solution is for everyone to stop conflating people&#039;s value as human beings with their sexual attractiveness.  Just because you don&#039;t want to fuck someone doesn&#039;t mean you have the right to be rude.  Maybe we all need to wear those &quot;Mean People Suck&quot; t-shirts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what all of this boils down to is this:  we need to work finding value in others even if we don&#8217;t want to sleep with them.  </p>
<p>So often queer people and maybe even humans in general (but definitely queer people, because we&#8217;re always looking for that needle in the gaystack) we dismiss people who we don&#8217;t find sexually attractive.  We dehumanize them to the point where it&#8217;s okay to be mean to them and shit all over them (metaphorically speaking).</p>
<p>The solution is for everyone to stop conflating people&#8217;s value as human beings with their sexual attractiveness.  Just because you don&#8217;t want to fuck someone doesn&#8217;t mean you have the right to be rude.  Maybe we all need to wear those &#8220;Mean People Suck&#8221; t-shirts?</p>
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