Commentary: "Black Homophobia" and Proposition 8
TNG reader Mel is a PG County native who is now living in Michigan and learning how to be a librarian. Please consider adding your voice to our discussion on the passage of Proposition 8, and where to go from here.
Anyone who has taken a look at the exit polls from the Prop 8 initiative in California (the one banning same-sex marriage) will notice that 70% of the black voters actually voted for this initiative. As I was watching the results from Prop 8 exit polls come in on Wednesday, I worried about potential animosity towards blacks from some in the GLBTQ community, since these two groups have had a tenuous relationship over the past couple of decades. I just knew a white gay pundit was going to come out and talk about these exit polls in relation to “black homophobia.” Eventually Dan Savage took the bait. (I actually had my money on Andrew Sullivan.)
Savage obviously is not the first person to talk about black homophobia. I think that–on some level–many gay people feel the same way. A few years ago, someone even asked me: “aren’t black people more homophobic than white people?”
There is no one way to answer that. How does one define homophobia? Do you define it as being against same-sex marriage? As as being against legal protection from discrimination for gays? Or would you define it as simply hating gays? One of my problems with Dan Savage’s comments is that he equates homophobia with being against same-sex marriage. This is faulty logic. A study published in the American Association for Public Opinion Research in 2003 found that while blacks are more disapproving of homosexuality than whites, they are MORE likely than whites to support things like laws prohibiting anti-gay discrimination and gay civil liberties. What accounts for this contradiction of supporting anti-discrimination laws protecting gays but disapproving of homosexuality? This isn’t as clear, but religion plays a large role. As far as this pertains to same-sex marriage, it is probable that many blacks see same-sex marriage as a religious issue, rather than one of civil liberties. It goes without saying that blacks can relate to being discriminated against, which explains their support for anti-discrimination laws. So does the lack of black support for same sex marriage mean that blacks are more homophobic than whites? Certainly not.
I also do not want people to fall into the trap of calling blacks out on a prejudice that our larger society perpetuates. If blacks are homophobic, it is because we picked it up from the rest of you. Just like any other prejudice, homophobia is learned. Did you know that “homosexual” (as an identity) and “homophobia” are both Western concepts? They are.
When I answered the person who posed this question of black homophobia to me, I made sure to point out that I have received way more harassment for being gay from white people than from other black people – just to drive the point home. I’m not suggesting that blacks, by and large, are overwhelmingly gay-friendly. No, contrary to what Dan Savage seems to think, we cannot all be painted with one, monolithic brush. We are a diverse people – of many religious faiths, educational backgrounds, income levels, and experiences (all of which statistically factor into determining attitudes about gay people). Homophobia is homophobia, period – and it knows no color. Talking about “black” homophobia (outside of any context relating to black GLBTQ people) makes just as much sense as talking about “white” homophobia, or “yellow” homophobia (does that even exist?? – I haven’t heard Dan Savage rave about it).
So rather than interpreting these exit polls as proof of “black homophobia” and complaining about it, maybe we can take this opportunity to initiate some much-need conversation in black places of worship. The church I attended while living in the DC area provides an example of a black congregation that is not afraid of engaging dialogs about GLBTQ issues (as they pertain to the church) and unabashedly affirms GLBTQ folks. There is no doubt in my mind that this can happen elsewhere. Change won’t rain down on us from a new President – WE’VE got to make it happen.
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i would not go far as to say that the exit polls show that blacks are more homophobic. but i would say that they point out that there is an isssue there. i’m not black and not a sociologist so i won’t venture a guess. but, if the reason really is related to religion, is there evidence that “religious” people of other races and ethnicities share similar views on prop 8 and other gay issues as “religious” blacks? i don’t know.
also, i would argue that opposition to prop 8 is homophobic. i grant you that many people regardless of race look at marriage through the prism of religion. but you forget that california, just like all states and localities, has chosen to recognize marriages performed in churches and those performed outside of churches by judges, mayors, etc. so we’re not just talking about religion. we’re talking about rights and privileges being denied to people because of the gender of the person they fall in love with.
Parker – I agree with you on the first point. My main point was that blacks are *not* more homophobic than other groups.
While you and I both understand that there is a difference between marriage in a religious sense and marriage in a civil sense, not everyone does. The ‘Yes on Prop 8′ campaign threw a lot of mis-information into the mix. Ads told people that their churches would be forced to marry same-sex couples and stripped of their tax-exempt status. Blantant lies, but people believed them.
I think it is also worth pointing out that it is always a fallacy to point to the critical role that one or another group plays in swinging the result of an election, particularly an election this close. It’s been driving me up the wall every time I hear some vapid talking head on TV say something like, “And how ironic that many of the African American voters that Obama’s campaign helped turn out to vote ended up swinging the Prop 8 vote to Yes. If Obama had not been at the top of the ticket, Prop 8 may not have passed.” AAAAAAh!
Why is this the compelling storyline that comes out of this vote? Because the media are biased towards these kinds of storylines pitting group against group, especially two marginalized groups like blacks and gays. Far less prominent are storylines about Mormons funding the Yes campaign, or the fact that Republicans voted at a much higher rate in favor of Yes than did blacks. Why shouldn’t the storyline be about Republicans vs. gays? Or, why isn’t the storyline about the geographic divide in the vote? Folks living inland in CA were far more likely to support Prop 8, while those living on the coasts were against it. Sounds to me like people who actually know gay people and see gay people on a day-to-day basis are not threatened by gay marriage, whereas those who are living inland, away from major urban centers, fear that with which they have less familiarity. Or, why not focus on what I consider to be the really crucial dividing line of the vote as we move forward: generation. It’s not as sexy as black vs. gay, is it?
Remember – If fewer Republicans had turned out, Prop 8 would not have passed. If fewer older people had turned out, Prop 8 would not have passed. If more gays and gay allies had turned out, Prop 8 would not have passed. If the Mormon church had not funded a dishonest campaign that equated equality under the law with indoctrination of children, Prop 8 would not have passed. If fewer religious fundamentalists of all kinds ad not turned out, Prop 8 would not have passed. And even if 70% of blacks voted against us, their raw numbers are far less than other groups that voted against us. White Republicans, for example, are far more numerous in CA and voted for Prop 8 at a higher rate than did blacks.
Let’s not scapegoat blacks for this. More than anyone, we should be know how it feels to be the scapegoat. This was not solely the fault of the African American community, so let’s not fixate on them as if they are our biggest enemy. I love Dan Savage. He’s disappointing me a whole lot on this one.
I guess the reason why the news stations are presenting the black voter bias in terms of Prop 8 is that it is news. Mormons, republicans, rural areas being anti-gay is pretty common. I realize that there are exceptions all around. But the fact that one marginalized group would strip civil liberties of another marginalized group is news. It shows that we have a lot of work to do. It does come off as bias, but it is news-worthy.
It teaches the LBGT community that we need to think differently with our strategies to achieve our rights. The Prop 8 supporters were diverse with including Mormons, Catholics, and Orthodox Jews. It is not just a Christian funadamentalist initiative. If we think that our opponents are only crusty, conservative, old white dudes, our strategies won’t be effective. Sorry for the stereotype.
Note to the editors: The link to the Savage piece is broken.
Thanks for the tip, Anon. Fixed.
Young people are with us. We just have to wait for enough old people to die.
I don’t think truly homophobic people (of any race) are going to change their minds. These are the kinds of people who kick their own children out of the house for being gay. Their anti-gay hate is stonger than their love for their own children — that’s a serious level of bigotry. Is a newspaper article or a protest going to change their attitude? The best “activist” to solve this problem is the grim reaper, to put it bluntly.
It is contradictory to argue, even imply, we can or should excuse black homophobia but not gay racism. Unacceptable.
“It goes without saying that blacks can relate to being discriminated against, which explains their support for anti-discrimination laws. So does the lack of black support for same sex marriage mean that blacks are more homophobic than whites? Certainly not.”
Would also argue white gays who refuse to date blacks but support affirmative-action aren’t racist (or “as” racist) as white straights? Certainly not.
“I also do not want people to fall into the trap of calling blacks out on a prejudice that our larger society perpetuates. If blacks are homophobic, it is because we picked it up from the rest of you. Just like any other prejudice, homophobia is learned.”
I see. Would you excuse gay racism because it was “learned” from “our larger society” of straight white bigots? There are plenty of African, Middle Eastern and non-western countries and cultures where homophobia exists.
“Did you know that “homosexual” (as an identity) and “homophobia” are both Western concepts? They are.”
“Homosexual” is not an identity, it is a sexual orientation. “Gay” is, I believe, the cultural identity to which you refer.
Your analysis leaves out an important component of what Dan Savage actually wrote in his blog post:
“And please note: My original post described black homophobia as a big problem for all gays and lesbians, whatever their color. This isn’t about African Americans beating up on gay white men and women; African American gays and lesbians are the ones who suffer the most from African American homophobia.“
Let’s remember that homophobia impacts all gay and lesbian people of every color.
The original post (by TerranceDC) that prompted Dan Savage to write about this in the first place is over at Pam’s House Blend. I recommend it…
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8051
As others have said, I’m no sociologist, and I’m a probably-biased gay white guy. That said, I’m just going to say this: on Friday, for Halloween, my (straight) roommate and I thought it would be fun to dress up as the Ambiguously Gay Duo, from SNL. We went the whole nine yards (spandex, yellow briefs, etc.), and, in general, had a blast. We hit several parts of the city, going to areas with various racial makeups, and most people we saw thought our costumes were funny, wanted pictures with us, etc. Inevitably, though, there were some homophobic folks, who yelled insults at us, physically intimidated us, and so forth, and the striking thing was that every single one was an African American man, without exception, and both of us were pretty shocked by the discrepancy in behavior. This isn’t how I saw it with my filtered, white-centric perceptions; just a statement of fact.
Now, it’s not only possible, but likely, that my sample was far from random, and it may well be that there were just as many homophobic white folks that saw us, too, but that white culture encourages them to keep their mouths shut. I’m not sure. But I do know I was less surprised by the exit polling on Tuesday in light of my experiences the previous weekend than I might otherwise have been.
I think we have to be careful about stereotypes, to be sure, but ignoring blatant evidence of a problem in the name of political correctness is not constructive.
Check out anything written by dead local gay black poet Essex Hemphill, especially the book Brother to Brother. The focus is primarily on african-americans and homophobia, and the response to that homophobia.
All I can say is that CA isn’t as liberal as even some of its residents like to think, just like NY state. If you only think of the clusters of cities in the north around SF (SF is probably the whitest place in America after dark, it’s practically a sundowner town) or LA itself (Orange county was long the home of Bob Dornan for god’s sake), you’d be left with a pretty skewed impression.
That said Africa-Americans make up 6.2% of the population. 6.2%! That’s barely a blip on the radar in demographics. Did someone not notice that 82% of WHITE republicans voted yes, a demographic number far greater than 6.2%. Dan Savage can’t count, and apparently neither can a lot of rich white gay men with an axe to grind.
Now look at how many east coast cities with majorities of African-Americans have long had some of the most progressive legislation on the books for GLBT, including DC. So it’s not as easy as some would have you believe.
It is however possible that black gay men are less likely to be out than men of equal socio-economic status of white men, but we can say the same for certain subsets of Latinos. The very loaded church sermons do sound like much that whites once paid attention to a few decades ago.
For four years I worked in a federal agency that was 80% African-American and there were definitely some small minds running around, but perhaps the only real difference was that people thought it was OK to say things, whereas a lot of white people have. It was FAR worse for the people who were other minorities.
“So rather than interpreting these exit polls as proof of “black homophobia” and complaining about it…”
“Interpreting”? Are you kidding? Overwhelming Black and Latino support for Prop 8 has been well documented by mainstream media including the Los Angeles Times, the LA Daily News and MSNBC to name just a few. Try a Google search.
“Complaining”? Remind me to tell people of color to stop “complaining” the next time they’re discriminated against, or the next time they attack and kill a gay man.
Forgive me for challenging the Most Honored Victim status of Black Americans. My mistake, clearly I forgot Blacks own the civil rights movement.
You know, white gay racism pisses me off AND I neither deny nor excuse it.
Mark: My point was that complaining is not a constructive response. Where would we be today if blacks had just sat around complaining about Jim Crow? Note that the (Afro-American) Civil Rights Movement heavily relied upon alliances between blacks and other groups. Many GLBTQ groups have already taken this cue and done like-wise. I was just pointing that out.
I also refuse to talk about prejudices in terms of one being more important than the other. I also do not claim that black people hold a “special victim status” and should be excused for their homophobia. I only object to those who say that black people are more homophobic than other groups. This is a stereotype that I have constantly encountered (from white gay people) and this commentary was just my way of calling people out on that. As a black queer person, that stereotype hurts.
Yes, I meant “gay” rather than “homosexual.” Thanks for pointing that out.
Yes, homophobia exists in non-Western cultures. But these cultures do not exist in a vacuum. I would argue that cross-culturation between the West and these cultures has played a role in introducing these concepts into their cultures. Again, I’m not saying that homosexuality is uniquely Western, only the concept of attaching it to an identity is.
Of course homophobia effects everyone. I even said in the commentary: Homophobia is homophobia, period – and it knows no color. Again, what I object to is people singling black people out for this.
Look at one of the above comments, which talks about cities with large black and Latino populations having passed pro-gay legislation. Also take into account that millions of dollars were thrown into the “Yes on 8″ campaign, which targeted these groups of people. Lies about Prop 8 were spread on a massive scale. Blaming blacks and Latinos for the passage of Prop 8 isn’t fair or logical.
Andrew: Sorry to hear about your experience. These people were obviously homophobic. But I object to your suggestion of a “white culture encouraging [white homophobes] to keep their mouths shut.” What is white culture? Whatever it is, it certainly doesn’t silence people like Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, or all the (overwhelmingly white) Mormons who poured money into the “Yes on 8″ campaign. It also didn’t silence, Jerry Falwell, Anita Bryant, Ronald Regan, the white people who murdered Brandon Teena and Matthew Shepherd (just to name two cases), or all the white people who hassled me for being queer. No – white people are just as vocal as anyone about their hate.
I am not suggesting that we ignore homophobia on the part of black people for the sake of political correctness, as you stated. I encourage people to call EVERYONE out on their homophobia, racism, sexism, class bias, etc. But to single one group of people out as being more guilty of these -isms than other groups is divisive, hurtful, and counter-productive.
re: Mel
Basically we agree.
I do not know that Blacks are more homophobic than other groups. I only know 70% of Black Californians voted against gay marriage.
“…cross-culturation between the West and [non-Western] cultures has played a role in introducing these concepts [of sexual orientation and homophobia]…”
Blaming white people for black homophobia is to absolve black people of any responsibility or intelligence and is be truly racist. I do think sexual orientation existed as a concept before straight people decided to identify homosexuals as genetically defective deviants. Homosexuals are executed in some Middle Eastern countries like Iran. Are we blaming white people for that now?
While it is unacceptable to assign “blame” for the passage of Prop 8 it is entirely reasonable to discuss all proven causes of that result including the roles Black voters, the Catholic Church and the Mormons.
“…it is probable that many blacks see same-sex marriage as a religious issue, rather than one of civil liberties.”
If, indeed, Blacks (and Catholics and Mormons) object to gay marriage on religious grounds how is it atheist heterosexuals (of all colors) get married? How would religious Black voters explain anti-gay marriage position then?
I think it is important to point out that at the time of Barack Obama’s birth his parents were not allowed to marry according to anti-miscegenation laws in most US states including Hawaii. Given this history the degree to which Black Californians voted against gay marriage is noteworthy and, to say the least, relevant.
To discuss this is not racist nor does it elide the larger role of Mormons, Catholics and white people in general.
No, I am not blaming white people for everyone’s homophobia. I am just acknowledging the evolution of the concepts of homosexuality and homophobia as being relevant. My point is that prejudices are learned. But it is everyone’s responsibility to work to overcome them.
Again, I realize there is a difference between marriage in a civil sense and marriage in a religious sense. And there are many reasons why people get married. But to ignore the large role religion plays in black communities is dismissive. I’m trying my best not to generalize (though this fact it well-documented), but blacks are religious folks. So, again, discussions about marriage automatically tie in to religion if you are talking about black communities.
Mel: my wording with regard to “white culture” was careless; apologies. What I meant was that maybe there were white people just as bothered by our costumes as there were black people, but for whatever reason (I really have no idea), they didn’t speak up.
And I also don’t mean to single out black people as the source of the passage of prop 8. If anything, the lion’s share of blame should go to the religious organizations that swept into the state with their well-funded misinformation campaign. All I intended was to suggest that while I don’t want us to blame black people, exclusively, the exit polls were noteworthy, and maybe black people are more in need of attention and outreach during the repeal campaign than some other demographics (e.g., atheists, who opposed prop 8 9-to-1).
A “yes” vote is homophobic. There’s no other way you can reasonably interpret voting that way.
It’s a psychological fact that everybody needs someone to look down on. African-American people have long had to hold the shitty end of the stick in this country, but at least a black man can say ‘I’m not a fag!’ and votes yes Prop. 8. And later while the minorities fight, the main structures of power remain unchallenged.
Basic divide and conquer, people.
I am just so sick of people scapegoating Black people for the passing of Prop 8 when only 10% of the voters were Black people. Please everyone read this clarifying article.
http://socialistworker.org/2008/11/11/myth-of-the-black-gay-divide
As a black and gay person I cannot disagree with you more. The various ways I have been denigrated and derided by other black people over the years for being gay has left an indelible impression on me. If I could I would gladly repudiate my black identity and retain my gay one. Obviously that can never happen. Black homophobia is particularly egregious. I’m willing to state that unequivocally what others are afraid to say; black homophobia is an impediment to equality.
Please spare me the “the LGBT community needs to reach out to African Americans” crap. Black gay men are not even willing to admit their homosexuality. they think being gay is a “white man’s problem”. They would rather be on the down-low and accrue all the privileges of being heterosexual while still having sex with men.
Hey RobbieP,
It took a lot of guts to say that. I’m sorry things have been that rough for you.
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