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	<title>Comments on: Health: Approximate Living</title>
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	<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html</link>
	<description>For Everyone Over the Rainbow</description>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5292</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5292</guid>
		<description>Ben43, you never dissapoint me. Your first post, and you spend it staring into the glowing eye of the beast. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This issue is massive, and there are so many points of attack. Thoughts:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;objects of bigotry are forced to manage their own oppression in perpetual states of anxiety&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When I read this, the term &quot;drama&quot; came to mind. So often I forget that the dramatic overtones, self-medication, and aesthetic perfectionism of gay lives and personalities are dictated by a patterened state of perpetual anxiety. I once felt anger toward gay &quot;culture.&quot; Now I only feel empathy. The similarities between gay and african american communities are striking in this way. We&#039;re both in a box made of our own oppression, and the circular firing squad isn&#039;t helpful in overcoming our oppressive inheritance.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;While the critique you offer rings true, I&#039;m not sure gays are special in regards to &quot;the box.&quot; It seems that self-medication and control of environments is a pandemic that affects everyone. The world is a very insecure place.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;the question remains, how do we break out of the box? Even with all complaints to the contrary, most would say they feel quite comfortable within the known boundaries of the box. I would suspect discussions of overcoming addictions and facing insecurities--rejecting the paradigm of artifice--would not be taken well. Accusations of relativism and internalized homophobia would likely drown out any discussion of transcendence. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Can identity or culture even exist outside of a box? I&#039;ve never been comfortable or able to define my identity clearly enough to fit inside a box, as much as I&#039;ve made half-hearted attempts to fit inside several of them for the sake of acceptance and certainty. What does that make me? Maybe identity and culture aren&#039;t constructs meant for people who don&#039;t accept their limitations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben43, you never dissapoint me. Your first post, and you spend it staring into the glowing eye of the beast. </p>
<p>This issue is massive, and there are so many points of attack. Thoughts:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;objects of bigotry are forced to manage their own oppression in perpetual states of anxiety&#8221;</i></p>
<p>When I read this, the term &#8220;drama&#8221; came to mind. So often I forget that the dramatic overtones, self-medication, and aesthetic perfectionism of gay lives and personalities are dictated by a patterened state of perpetual anxiety. I once felt anger toward gay &#8220;culture.&#8221; Now I only feel empathy. The similarities between gay and african american communities are striking in this way. We&#8217;re both in a box made of our own oppression, and the circular firing squad isn&#8217;t helpful in overcoming our oppressive inheritance.</p>
<p>While the critique you offer rings true, I&#8217;m not sure gays are special in regards to &#8220;the box.&#8221; It seems that self-medication and control of environments is a pandemic that affects everyone. The world is a very insecure place.  </p>
<p>the question remains, how do we break out of the box? Even with all complaints to the contrary, most would say they feel quite comfortable within the known boundaries of the box. I would suspect discussions of overcoming addictions and facing insecurities&#8211;rejecting the paradigm of artifice&#8211;would not be taken well. Accusations of relativism and internalized homophobia would likely drown out any discussion of transcendence. </p>
<p>Can identity or culture even exist outside of a box? I&#8217;ve never been comfortable or able to define my identity clearly enough to fit inside a box, as much as I&#8217;ve made half-hearted attempts to fit inside several of them for the sake of acceptance and certainty. What does that make me? Maybe identity and culture aren&#8217;t constructs meant for people who don&#8217;t accept their limitations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5291</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5291</guid>
		<description>Re: Fight Back!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;...and if I read correctly this is an article about &lt;i&gt;gay&lt;/i&gt; people, not trans people.  The &quot;confusion&quot; in question is that of gay men specifically.  Trans people are not mentioned anywhere here because this piece is about &lt;i&gt;gay&lt;/i&gt; identity and &lt;i&gt;gay&lt;/i&gt; culture.  Geez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Fight Back!</p>
<p>&#8230;and if I read correctly this is an article about <i>gay</i> people, not trans people.  The &#8220;confusion&#8221; in question is that of gay men specifically.  Trans people are not mentioned anywhere here because this piece is about <i>gay</i> identity and <i>gay</i> culture.  Geez.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5290</guid>
		<description>@ Michael&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You asked for it, so here&#039;s a trans rebuttal =) :&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There are two problems, I think, with the link. The first is that it implicitly says that trans=gender-confusion, and while certainly there are many trans people who do experience that, the word &quot;confusion&quot; has been used frequently to invalidate trans identities, and so linking them in such a one-to-one manner seems... dismissive, perhaps?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Actually, though, what bothers me more is that the connection made seems to say that gender confusion and gender issues aren&#039;t &lt;i&gt;gay&lt;/i&gt; problems, they&#039;re &lt;i&gt;trans&lt;/i&gt; problems, which is blatantly untrue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Michael</p>
<p>You asked for it, so here&#8217;s a trans rebuttal =) :</p>
<p>There are two problems, I think, with the link. The first is that it implicitly says that trans=gender-confusion, and while certainly there are many trans people who do experience that, the word &#8220;confusion&#8221; has been used frequently to invalidate trans identities, and so linking them in such a one-to-one manner seems&#8230; dismissive, perhaps?</p>
<p>Actually, though, what bothers me more is that the connection made seems to say that gender confusion and gender issues aren&#8217;t <i>gay</i> problems, they&#8217;re <i>trans</i> problems, which is blatantly untrue.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5289</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5289</guid>
		<description>RE: Fight Back!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Michael has a very good point.  Gays and transpeople have to explain, justify and defend their gender in ways straight people never have to.  That is a lot of pressure.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ben43 did not include gender confusion on a list of self-destructive behaviors. The list you mention actually refers to pressures of gay life that &lt;i&gt;produce&lt;/i&gt; those behaviors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Fight Back!</p>
<p>Michael has a very good point.  Gays and transpeople have to explain, justify and defend their gender in ways straight people never have to.  That is a lot of pressure.</p>
<p>Ben43 did not include gender confusion on a list of self-destructive behaviors. The list you mention actually refers to pressures of gay life that <i>produce</i> those behaviors.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5288</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5288</guid>
		<description>For the record, TNG staff linked the text &quot;gender confusion&quot; to the link for TNG posts labeled with the tag &quot;trans.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Personally, I can&#039;t think of anything that would be more gender-confusing than slowly making the realization of being a girl in a boy&#039;s body. If a trans person would like to correct me, by all means speak up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, TNG staff linked the text &#8220;gender confusion&#8221; to the link for TNG posts labeled with the tag &#8220;trans.&#8221;</p>
<p>Personally, I can&#8217;t think of anything that would be more gender-confusing than slowly making the realization of being a girl in a boy&#8217;s body. If a trans person would like to correct me, by all means speak up.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;...Can you explain what you mean when you use the term &quot;gender confusion...&quot;  --Fight Back!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I dunno dude.  To me gender confusion  just means guys acting effeminate.  Not the same thing as a trans person wanting to change their sex.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;Can you explain what you mean when you use the term &#8220;gender confusion&#8230;&#8221;  &#8211;Fight Back!</i></p>
<p>I dunno dude.  To me gender confusion  just means guys acting effeminate.  Not the same thing as a trans person wanting to change their sex.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Fletcher-Marzullo</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5286</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Fletcher-Marzullo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5286</guid>
		<description>Whoa! I thought this post was brilliant! Thank you, thank you!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It makes me think that there are at least a couple of things going on with the development of &quot;Gay culture.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do think there&#039;s a &quot;mainstream Gay culture&quot; that swallowed the markers by which achievement is measured in the broader society (what you smartly listed as perfect body, car, job, etc.). Much of that is what mainstream straight culture tells us we should be, should have, should strive for.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You ask, &quot;Do we really need to prove our worth to ourselves and each other continuously?&quot; A great question, and one that is twisted in some of the answers I see provided by many Gay men who are struggling with what their orientation means.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps a better question for us to ask is - What is our worth? Truly, what do we add to mix? What qualities, powers, viewpoints and contributions do we make to the lives of those around us, the life of Gay culture, and the life of the larger culture? What are those things that we can contribute that have nothing to do with making sure that we have six-pack abs, six-figures, and the right clothes (not to mention endless hours at the therapist)?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There are men and women and people in between who continue to seek these answers and live them, and I think it&#039;s to them that we should look and learn from if we&#039;re to find out what the possible manifestations of gay (or, in a broader lingo, queer) culture can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa! I thought this post was brilliant! Thank you, thank you!</p>
<p>It makes me think that there are at least a couple of things going on with the development of &#8220;Gay culture.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do think there&#8217;s a &#8220;mainstream Gay culture&#8221; that swallowed the markers by which achievement is measured in the broader society (what you smartly listed as perfect body, car, job, etc.). Much of that is what mainstream straight culture tells us we should be, should have, should strive for.</p>
<p>You ask, &#8220;Do we really need to prove our worth to ourselves and each other continuously?&#8221; A great question, and one that is twisted in some of the answers I see provided by many Gay men who are struggling with what their orientation means.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better question for us to ask is &#8211; What is our worth? Truly, what do we add to mix? What qualities, powers, viewpoints and contributions do we make to the lives of those around us, the life of Gay culture, and the life of the larger culture? What are those things that we can contribute that have nothing to do with making sure that we have six-pack abs, six-figures, and the right clothes (not to mention endless hours at the therapist)?</p>
<p>There are men and women and people in between who continue to seek these answers and live them, and I think it&#8217;s to them that we should look and learn from if we&#8217;re to find out what the possible manifestations of gay (or, in a broader lingo, queer) culture can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Fight back!</title>
		<link>http://thenewgay.net/2008/09/approximate-living.html#comment-5285</link>
		<dc:creator>Fight back!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/approximate-living/#comment-5285</guid>
		<description>While I do not identify as trans, I&#039;m pretty sure that many people would object to the use of the term &quot;gender confusion&quot; to describe trans folks.  You also lump &quot;gender confusion&quot; (read: trans) in with a list of self-destructive behaviors.  Can you explain what you mean when you use the term &quot;gender confusion&quot; and why you are classifying it as a self-destructive behavior that apparently gay people are &quot;perpetuating.&quot;  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I do not identify as trans, I&#8217;m pretty sure that many people would object to the use of the term &#8220;gender confusion&#8221; to describe trans folks.  You also lump &#8220;gender confusion&#8221; (read: trans) in with a list of self-destructive behaviors.  Can you explain what you mean when you use the term &#8220;gender confusion&#8221; and why you are classifying it as a self-destructive behavior that apparently gay people are &#8220;perpetuating.&#8221;  Thanks!</p>
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