Comments on: Media: The New Old Gay??? http://thenewgay.net/2008/07/new-old-gay.html For Everyone Over the Rainbow Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:03:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Philip http://thenewgay.net/2008/07/new-old-gay.html#comment-4333 Philip Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:49:00 +0000 http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/the-new-old-gay/#comment-4333 It seriously underestimates the lives of gays in decades past to think that they were all ashamed and conformist. (I don't think that's what you mean, michael, but it sounds a bit that way. Probably just the phrasing and the difficulty in the shades and meanings of these concepts.) Part of what we now view as conformity was a necessary accommodation in order to live the meaningful life that we all strive for. Shame and conformity are two parts of the equation of pre-Stonewall gay life (to pick an arbitrary, but popular, cut-off date), but they are overemphasized: part of the Mythology of the Pre-Liberation Gay.<br/><br/>I also think use of the "old gay" and "new gay" terms is confusing because it mixes in with stereotypes about older and younger gay men. I identify more frequently on a personal level with the ideas and attitudes of gay men older than myself; does this mean that I do not qualify under the label "new gay"? I've never identified with the term, but I write for the site: what does this mean?<br/><br/>In short: why labels (and thereby the article that Michael wrote about) are reductive and infuriating. It seriously underestimates the lives of gays in decades past to think that they were all ashamed and conformist. (I don’t think that’s what you mean, michael, but it sounds a bit that way. Probably just the phrasing and the difficulty in the shades and meanings of these concepts.) Part of what we now view as conformity was a necessary accommodation in order to live the meaningful life that we all strive for. Shame and conformity are two parts of the equation of pre-Stonewall gay life (to pick an arbitrary, but popular, cut-off date), but they are overemphasized: part of the Mythology of the Pre-Liberation Gay.

I also think use of the “old gay” and “new gay” terms is confusing because it mixes in with stereotypes about older and younger gay men. I identify more frequently on a personal level with the ideas and attitudes of gay men older than myself; does this mean that I do not qualify under the label “new gay”? I’ve never identified with the term, but I write for the site: what does this mean?

In short: why labels (and thereby the article that Michael wrote about) are reductive and infuriating.

]]> By: lbj20009 http://thenewgay.net/2008/07/new-old-gay.html#comment-4332 lbj20009 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:17:00 +0000 http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/the-new-old-gay/#comment-4332 What gay, new or old, wouldn't want to consider themselves authentic, meaningful and self-reflective? <br/><br/>I actually think all the events that are set up by TNG are fun and interesting, but I just don't like the understated assumption that TNGs are different (re: better) than TOGs. It doesn't strike me as too different from the reasoning that SAGs use. <br/><br/>There are just as many 'Am I wearing the right look?', conforming people that listen to The Ting Tings as there are that listen to Madonna (bless her heart). It's just people trying to let others know that they're special and unique (dammit).<br/><br/>It's all in good fun, I just don't want to see the same social divide that most gays go through anyway when they come out of the closet recreated all over again. What gay, new or old, wouldn’t want to consider themselves authentic, meaningful and self-reflective?

I actually think all the events that are set up by TNG are fun and interesting, but I just don’t like the understated assumption that TNGs are different (re: better) than TOGs. It doesn’t strike me as too different from the reasoning that SAGs use.

There are just as many ‘Am I wearing the right look?’, conforming people that listen to The Ting Tings as there are that listen to Madonna (bless her heart). It’s just people trying to let others know that they’re special and unique (dammit).

It’s all in good fun, I just don’t want to see the same social divide that most gays go through anyway when they come out of the closet recreated all over again.

]]> By: Michael http://thenewgay.net/2008/07/new-old-gay.html#comment-4331 Michael Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:41:00 +0000 http://tngmichael.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/the-new-old-gay/#comment-4331 I read this Observer piece as well but the part that particularly outraged me was the false dichotomy the author sets up between her version of "old" and "new" gay. In her mind [and I am curious about your perspective Michael] there is a rigid line between showtunes-loving/camp-appreciating and Le Tigre-listening/self discovery-minded.<br/>I consider myself to be of a more "new gay" mentality (as you describe "authentic, meaningful and self-reflective") yet still enjoy a number of classic ("old") gay cultural touchstones. There seems to be no contradiction there to me.<br/>The difference between old gay and new gay isn't about clothes and bars and music but rather conformity versus individuality and, frankly, shame versus confidence. I read this Observer piece as well but the part that particularly outraged me was the false dichotomy the author sets up between her version of “old” and “new” gay. In her mind [and I am curious about your perspective Michael] there is a rigid line between showtunes-loving/camp-appreciating and Le Tigre-listening/self discovery-minded.
I consider myself to be of a more “new gay” mentality (as you describe “authentic, meaningful and self-reflective”) yet still enjoy a number of classic (“old”) gay cultural touchstones. There seems to be no contradiction there to me.
The difference between old gay and new gay isn’t about clothes and bars and music but rather conformity versus individuality and, frankly, shame versus confidence.

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