Gender Identity: A Lesson on Trans Inclusiveness in Marketing
Event Details: A Lesson on Trans Inclusiveness in Marketing - :
Or, “The Problems of BeBar’s Be:XX Marketing Effort”, submitted by Tina T.
Before I go into the critique of BeBar‘s marketing of their new women’s night/”DCs New Alterna-Queer Dance Party for Everyone”, I feel I need to define exactly what is a queer identified trans person, as there is some confusion about this. A queer identified trans person is not a person who identifies as queer (that is, not straight). This includes trans people who are out with regards to their trans status. The alternative queer community often provides trans people a safe haven in general, but queer identity, with regards to transsexuals, is tied closely to orientation. Many (if not most) trans people identify as queer, in that they identify with either having no sexual preference, are bisexual, or are gay or lesbian. For example, a queer identified trans man will often identify as a gay male, while a queer identified trans woman will often identify as lesbian or queer.
Many places have tried their hands at providing spaces for an alternative queer community in DC, however, sometimes without quite understanding the sensitivities with regards to trans people. One needs to look no further then the original marketing for BeBar’s Wednesday night Be:XX event to see this. The original marketing effort described that the event was designed for any person born with an XX gene, basically using chromosomes as a standard. The problem is that, while it explicitly included trans men, it also explicitly excluded the queer trans women who are also part of the lesbian community in DC.
The marketing effort was generally disrespectful of both men and women who transitioned, and failed to grasp the nature of trans inclusiveness that has evolved within the queer women’s community. Basically there was a lack of understanding with regards to the history of exclusion of queer identified trans women from lesbian spaces. By tying chromosomes with gender and inclusion, this effectively became dismissive of queer trans women’s identities both in terms of gender and sexual orientation. This is a point of sensitivity for trans women. A big part of the alternative queer movement was to push for greater inclusiveness for queer identified trans people, but especially trans women who have long faced hostility and discrimination within the queer community. While marketing an alternative queer women’s night is acceptable, marketing such a night in a way that explicitly and implicitly excluded trans women was disrespectful.
In addition to offending queer-identified trans women, it was also offensive to many trans men I know as well, and for very good reason. The identification of trans men with their genetic makeup is rather insulting and dismissive of their male identities. This is especially true for trans guys who identify as gay males. While some trans men do keep close ties to the lesbian community, most trans guys transition out of the community or were never part of that community to begin with. Most trans men, once transitioned, move into male spaces, either gay male spaces or straight spaces depending on how they identify. The problem is that the marketing of Be:XX attempts to include trans guys under the assumption that most guys who transition remain in lesbian spaces, when in fact this is not the case. Men who would like to be considered as such and not identified with their chromosomes in marketing efforts.
The entire marketing effort was out of touch and dismissive of trans people’s identities. It came off as essentialist with using chromosomal characteristics, which in essence disrespects trans people’s identities as men or women. As stated in an earlier comment on the title and marketing, genes do not make up ones gender.
Eventually, BeBar kept with the original name, Be:XX, but dropped the marketing message for one that was more expansive and that stressed inclusion. Many individuals who were actively involved, including active members of the DC Kings and Gurly Show, expressed their concern with the original marketing effort. I give credit to BeBar to offering a Wednesday night home for the DC Kings and Gurly Show after Chaos closed. I regularly attend the event on Wednesday night, even before they made changes to the marketing; I try not to let the marketing get in the way of spending time with my friends, and I am not one for boycotts. I also see the whole marketing disaster as one based in ignorance rather than hostility, one in which the person designing the marketing did not fully understand issues of inclusiveness within the lesbian and trans community. But my trans-guy friend is still rather insulted by the title of the event and my personal word of advice to BeBar is to change it immediately.
The alternative queer community formed in many cities as a way to avoid the practice of excluding queer people who did not fit easily into the mainstream gay and lesbian pigeonholes. I wish I could say there is a solid scene here in DC like there is in many other big cities, but there is not. For the most part there is a group of people here in DC pushing for a larger community because there is a sense of disappointment with regards to what DC is offering. This includes people like myself who grew up in an alternative queer community, because it was a safe space for me before transition and did allow for greater degree of expression. However, if bars and clubs in DC are going to cater to this growing community, it has to realize that the mistake BeBar made should not be repeated. All queer identified trans people should feel welcome in queer spaces in general, especially with regards to spaces associated with their identified gender. DC bars and clubs should avoid the divisiveness of trans exclusionary practices of the past and respect people’s identities, whether it is in marketing or practice.
(A somewhat related side note: Phase 1 has one of the most informed and respectful policies with regards to the trans inclusiveness issue. The lesbian bar lets in trans women and trans men need an escort. Basically, they keep the bar a women’s space while simultaneously respecting individuals identities. They are known to let trans men they know in without an escort, but most trans guys I know who have transitioned have to go in with an escort. Phase 1 does not market their inclusive practices, because respect for an individual’s identity does not need to be marketed.)
Be:XX happens every Wednesday night at BeBar, 1318 9th Street NW.
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I have to admit I am not terribly informed on the issue but something sits wrong with me in your assessment of Phase 1′s policy. If a trans guy needs an escort to vouch for him, how is that respect for individual identify? It seems to me that his admission to the club is gained only through his association with respected clientele. Shouldn’t Phase 1 policy statement read along the lines: We are trans inclusive (but trans men are conditionally included).
Feel free to educate me….
this post is very interesting and illuminating but also very disheartening. while i’m glad that be bar is reaching out to groups in the community that are not (or feel like they are not) inlcuded in the “mainstream” gay scene and that they’ve addressed their apparent marketing error, it’s disappointing that there is a need to have niche nights like this. it’s doubly disappointing to me that a bar like phase 1 would only allow men or trans men if they have an escort. i want to go to bars or events where all members of the “queer” community with similar interests are welcome and can do their thing. when will that happen? even forward-thinking events like taint and the tng parties wind up being attended largely by gay white men.
My take on Phase 1′s policy is, if you identify as a woman, you are welcome, if you identify as a man (regardless of your chromosomes) you need an escort. A trans-man is treated as a man, which respects his individual identity.
Clear as mud, no?
Parker, we’re definitely trying to get the women and QPOCs out to our events. We have been inclusive and inviting to all queers from day one. Aside from dragging them in from the sidewalk, how can we get more diversity at our parties?
Reread Allison’s post from April. Where are the ladies at?
I was pleased with the gender makeup at Queerfest. Having both male and female DJs helped. I hope Stephanie will be DJing at Homo/Sonic.
michael – i know you’ve tried and want the parties to be diverse. didn’t want you to think i was knocking you.
It’s funny how often guys here get up in arms about the Phase’s policy. The policy isn’t to protect us from you guys, but from troublesome straight dudes there for the wrong reasons. Give Phase some credit for trying to make one safe space for women. They know what they’re doing after all these years. And, trans guys are guys, right, queer or not? Isn’t that the point? And women need “niche” nights for just the reason Parker points out: the parties are largely packed with gay white men.
jenny – who is it that is keeping the lesbians out of tng parties? or halo, be bar, town, or anywhere for that matter?
No one. I go to TNG parties, obviously. But there are a lot more of you guys everywhere taking up a lot more space. It’s nice to have our own things and spaces sometimes where we’re not a minority as usual. Why is that hard to understand?
lesbians are actually ghosts. it’s our hidden party trick.
anyway, i’m curious about whether or not be bar is planning on changing the name of be:xx…let’s all admit that no one would really notice (and those that would would probably welcome the change).
I agree, Stephanie. Any party that describes itself as “for everyone” shouldn’t spotlight a set of chromosomes in their name.
by the by, i’m dropping by the stupidly named Be:xx tonight around 10ish. anyone else?
Michael, Thanks for your speedy response. I think the policy you have succinctly described is a consistent policy but not necessarily respectful of individual identity.
Jenny, I am not sure if your comment re: “guys being up in arms over Phase 1 policy” was partially directed at me, the original poster, but I can assure you I am not angry, upset, etc. I just think that the policy is not necessarily the most “informed” or respectful of individual identity. That is not necessarily wrong. There are times when paternalistic motives outweigh respect for resect for individual identity. I don’t think that is hard to understand at all. But, I do think that it is something worth questioning and re-evaluating on a continued basis.
On a completely different subject, I think that just because Phase 1 has been doing it for a long time it doesn’t confer absolute correctness in their policies and procedures. The Bush’s have been in the business of politics forever but…. You get my point.
I heard mumbles of this piece at a get together last night, so I was pleased to find it this morning on my Google Reader so I could fully experience it. The mumbles I heard were from dear friends who are responsible for a number of “women’s” events in the city, including be:XX and Dyke Night. Needless to say this was received with shock and dismay.
At the core of discussions of this is not-so-thinly-veiled sexism. Let me tell you why. Gay/queer cisgendered women have historically attempted to carve out [safe]space in the larger gay community, specifically through bar nights and club events. Historically, as evidenced with my post about Slut Night a few months ago, this is been an effort of solidarity and sheer boldness in the face of the overabundant sexism within the gay/queer cisgendered male community. It goes without saying that in this world, where the top heavy patriarchy owns pretty much everything (gay or straight), cisgendered queer women’s space has been hard-won…even presently. Apex closed down their “Liquid Ladies” event under similar conditions (although the rumor has been argued, I have it on the highest authority that the reason why it closed down was because women don’t have as much money. Period.) and other cisgendered women’s venues have been either closed, shut down or evaporated into thin air. Additionally, Phase has only recently refined their views on the door policy because of the increasing number of trans folks who come to the bar and have a wonderful time.
But when talking about cisgendered women’s events, it is absolutely crucial to point out something we have endeavored to do at least in the past 10ish years I’ve been a member of the cisgendered women’s community in DC…we have softened our grip on private space in order to be conscious and respectful. We have made every effort to be wholly inclusive. I do not doubt for a second that the event name “be:XX” was not a creation of the hosts but of the [gay cisgendered men] owners of the bar, to pay lip service to a community who have been notoriously shut out of venues and events, and who have had to pander to the cisgendered men in our community in order to get anything. This is my assumption, not documented fact, but the outcome remains the same.
I love and respect the transcommunity in DC. Without them, we would not be the vibrantly diverse community we presently are; and in many cases, they are my queer dyke sisters and my faggy brothers. But this is the second attack in less than 6 weeks seemingly against the cisgendered queer women in the DC community and I must say that you are barking up the wrong tree. If you’d like to affect change, if you’d like to see space created in your favor or at least completely inclusive, then join us (cisgendered queer women) in our fight to take control, or at least even the score, from the hands of men. Period.
I don’t find these insinuations or “attacks” unwarranted, but I do find them misguided. There is no hierarchy of oppression, and in an effort to highlight your cause (which is important to the queer community as a whole, and incredibly important to me personally), your tone and accusations created divisiveness. There is no nice way to say that which is in your heart sometimes, but there are ways to be wholly and completely factually accurate.
as a member of the DC Kings and as an individual who sat in on a few king meetings where the name issue was discussed I wanted to shed some light on why the night remained be:xx.
But before that, I think it is important that the community know that those involved in the girly show and DC kings were aware of this very issue. Fights ensued, there was anger and tears, and frustration. I’m sure many of us have been in meetings before where by trying to include everyone you exclude even more people.
Currently, Be:xx is to be defined by the individual. It is X because X is a variable for whatever you want the night to be to you, however you want to identify. And while the marketing slogan has changed and not the night’s name, I think the original intent tainted the overall evening.
But this was the current thinking for an evening where individuality is accepted, even when certain bar owners were putting the pressure on. As we all know money speaks volumes.
as a member of the DC Kings and as an individual who sat in on a few king meetings where the name issue was discussed I wanted to shed some light on why the night remained be:xx.
But before that, I think it is important that the community know that those involved in the girly show and DC kings were aware of this very issue. Fights ensued, there was anger and tears, and frustration. I’m sure many of us have been in meetings before where by trying to include everyone you exclude even more people.
Currently, Be:xx is to be defined by the individual. It is X because X is a variable for whatever you want the night to be to you, however you want to identify. And while the marketing slogan has changed and not the night’s name, I think the original intent tainted the overall evening.
But this was the current thinking for an evening where individuality is accepted, even when certain bar owners were putting the pressure on. As we all know money speaks volumes.
What Meaghan fails to mention is that “cisgendered” means where your physical gender matches your identified gender or, in a nutshell, “not-trans”.
I make the cisgendered distinction because cisgendered folks, like myself, are often incapable of seeing beyond our dichotomous experience…we also dominate, in most cases, the “scene” and therefore have an obligation to be more inclusive, aware and deconstruct our privilege more vigilantly than trans-folks who are, in this case, the oppressed or “on the margins” group.
now i’m so confused -
who exactly is being targeted for be:xx…women? transfolk? all queers?
the target market for be:xx (as defined by the owners) was a night for women. Knowing the clientele who come to the King and gurly shows, members of those communities were uncomfortable with this and tried to open up the target market to all in the community.
Whether that has worked or not is another story, but that was the original intention by all deciding parties.
[disclaimer - i dj at be:xx]
i don’t know on what you base your assertion that most trans people in dc identify as queer – that might be true in the white community but not so much in the black and latina trans communities that i know in dc. and it seems like this post is mainly concerned with inclusion of white trans folk, which is the smaller of those communities in this city, which has proportionally more resources, greater mobility, and can do what they want without being targeted as much for violence from police and others.
altho i completely agree that a name “be:xx” that is about chromosones is not inclusive to trans people (period)there are also bigger fish to fry here. why not argue for MORE inclusive spaces period. don’t you think it’s a little ridiculous that this is a WEDNESDAY nite we are talking about? what aren’t there more regular nights like this happening on the weekend? why not target the many many nights that are targeted unabashedly to boys/men (and not trans men rest assured) in this town? why not talk about the $5 cover in the middle of the week?
for all its problems this nite is creating an interesting space that has a lot more inclusion that any queer nite at the black cat i’ve ever been to, and is giving an opportunity not only for performers from dc kings and burlesque but also djs who are damn good and don’t always get a chance to play in clubs, bars etc. the djs on these nites are a range of races, a range of genders and a range of sexual orientations – not quite the same can be said for other nights gay, lesbian, queer, straight, whatever. and they all ROCK!!!!
and don’t forget to check out the GRIND THE VOTE event on july 30 at be bar which is inclusive of sex workers and sex worker allies – it’s gonna be a great nite of performance, dance, politics, and sexy power!!!
xoxo
bent
Thank you for you input. The name xx is not perfect but it is an attempt to move away from using the term ladies night or women’s night. We have evolved to have xx mean alterna-queer instead of the female chromosome. Inclusiveness is not about the word or the label we use but our attitudes towards each other in the space. Personally I invite everyone who wants to hang out in our alterna-queer space which is about honoring the good people for who they are no matter how they identify. The party is about the people who attend.
Our performers and DJs represent Gender-queer, Trans, Lesbian, Bi, Straight, Gay, so we have made an effort and give space to anyone who wants to be a part of it.
I am working with the bebar staff so they understand that we may not always look like our ID and to work with us on that. I am very happy that the dc kings and dc gurly show have a space. So if you want to diversify the space than come join us. All are welcome.
This website is so annoying because every article is so technical/calling out something that’s like–
‘I can’t believe so and so left out so and so in the marketing plan. How thoughtless/inconsiderate. BANBANBAN.’
It makes me think the alternative community is constantly on the defense and has no sense of humor.
Like, I don’t think twice about someone’s sexual preference. Who the fuck cares who’s digging down there. I don’t give a damn. But coming here is like going to a Catholic website where they condemn you for listening to like. Eminem.
I think everyone just needs some hugs.
i agree with the last anonymous commenter. not on his/her comments about this site, but about the need to get over the labels and the nonsense. let’s all just go get drunk somewhere. ok?
hey hey, some queer theory on TNG! interesting post. as a dj and supporter of be bar wed nites, critical thinking and discussion about the marketing and the name is very necessary. i think bent and anon pretty much answered the question about who is the nite’s target. but i agree be:xx (or bexx as some folks have started to call it) tends to be more diverse than a lot of queer nite’s i’ve been to at black cat, red derby, or solly’s… esp for weekly mid-week party.
i wish this type of discussion could happen around more events in our community. in my personal experience, these critical conversations often happen around underrepresented and misrepresented sections of a community. every yr, there’s an article and/or rants in the homo papers about blacks, latino/as, transfolks, etc being exclusionary for having their own pride celebrations. in our queer community, i’ve heard very little discussion about the variety show and party Crack that TNG highly recommends. advertising by passing out fake crack baggies in a highly transformed section of dc (which is still recovering from effects of the crack epidemic after 15+ yrs), contestants dressing up in construction paper headdresses for “camp crackahoa”, their promoters being “crack dealers,” and i’m sure many other shenanigans that have happened since i’ve stopped paying attn to the event. i’m all for shenanigans, but preferably thoughtful shenanigans. my personal definition of queer prompts me to challenge and question beliefs and spaces in the lgbtq community such as Crack in addition to Bexx.
michael, you ask “Aside form dragging them in from the sidewalk, how can we get more diversity.” i’m assuming that’s a sincere question as opposed to a rhetorical question to parker’s comment. in which case, i think it’s important for me to say that having all (or overwhelming majority) white contributors (even though you all invited a diverse crew) and supporters is, and will continue to be, a huge obstacle in having diverse events. i’ve been approached by multiple all white groups and collectives to join them and/or support them. it usually doesn’t feel too good. as for ideas on diversifying contributors/readers/events – maybe linking to other relevant chick or qpoc blogs? maybe volunteering and/or supporting local chick and qpoc orgs? that shows an investment in a community outside of your immediate one and builds relationships with folks. maybe doing outreach and advertising outside of yr regular places? maybe you all have already done these things, but those are a small portion of my suggestions. nothing’s gonna change overnight, but i’m pretty used to being one of very few, so i’ll still be at homo/sonic dancin’ my ass off. meet me on the dance floor. after midnight, of course.
Yeah, I’m for it. the drinking.
And I don’t mean to come down so hard on the website, but I could even make it through the first paragraph of the article like, trans queer identifying as this and what. the heck. Not that I’m ignorant to labels, I just don’t spend my time on thinking any more of people as “people.” + Of course a night isn’t going to go into super-detail. A business is business and marketing can’t be so inclusive to list everything and everyone.
Respectfully: You have got to be kidding me.
Dominant male patriarchy? Victimized queer community?
Camille Paglia, I love you, even if the other new gays are still reverting to hyperbolic nonsensical speak.
Don’t be cliche. Don’t be a victim. Don’t redefine “xx” to mean alterna-queer in a earily Orwellian fashion.
Be original. Be creative. Be accepting. Be yourself.
With anything in this world…if you don’t like something than do something about it.
Create a night that is perfect which pleases everyone and considers all gender identities, classes, race, backgrounds, political views and identities…come on people it is just a name.
Anonymous Right Above Me:
Don’t be a victim? Only middle class+ white men have the luxury of spouting bullshit like that.
Does the privilege hurt?
oh. my. god.
this is a night at a bar, people. there is no reason to bring the patriarchy and white male privilege into this. it has nothing to do with any of this. and if you think it does, i might suggest going to a few more of these kinds of nights be bar is sponsoring to loosen up a little.
i am a white gay man, yes. as are the three people who started this blog. i can’t speak for anyone else, but i didn’t feel particularly privileged when i was getting beat up and humilated throughout my scholastic career for being a faggot. so we’re all in the same boat. if you don’t think so, that’s too bad for you. your raging against the machine over a bar night tells me i probably wouldn’t want to hang out with you at the next tng party anyway.
i also want to add that i think it is completely unfair to criticize the creators of this blog for being white, male and gay and having parties that are mostly white, male and gay. they have literally begged anyone who was interested or who felt like their viewpoint or community was not represented to write, submit, and participate. so, until you take them up on their offer, i suggest you not criticize them for their efforts.
Where are those hugs? Anyone?
White. Check. Middle class man. Check. Ivy league education. Check.
Biggest nellie fag growing up in a small town. Check. First 18 years of my life without a friend and daily verbal (and sometimes physical attacks). Check.
Privledged? Well, maybe, maybe not. What do you think?
Life is hard. People will try to victimize you. You can’t control what people try to do to you. You can control your response (with the help of monetary and non-monetary resources).
I second natty Boom. How ’bout a pan-dc-queer-blogs party? That could bring in anyone who’s queer, reads local queer blogs, likes parties, and who has access to a computer (or a friend with one).
Oh, and natty Boom… Feel free to add your voice to this community site whenever you want. You want to be a named contributor? We’ll give you an account. You can obviously write and have good perspectives. submit@thenewgay.net
Parker, it is perfectly reasonable and, in fact, wise to bring up things like a bar/club night in the context of privilege, transphobia, racism and sexism. The naysayers are people who are cushioned by things such as whiteness, cisgendered-ness, class cushions, etc. It seems unreasonable, but it’s reality whether you agree or not. When you ignore these things and wave your hand in the face of legitimate discussion about legitimate oppressions and social concerns, you are engaging privilege. And when you engage your privilege, which is easy to do when you’re white (at least in DC), you wind up silencing the people and the experiences of marginalized communities.
It is not unfair to critique TNG for having an all white “staff”. It’s a poor representation of The Gay in DC and it draws a thick line between the experiences of POC and gender-variant folks and those of white gays. And that thick line is particularly important because the white gays writing for this site happen to be giving “The Gay” in DC a voice, an online presence, and the capability of achieving some sort of local notoriety as the go-to folks for what’s hot and Gay in DC. That’s absolutely unfair (and false representation) to POC and gender-variant folks, don’t you think?
And no, the solution is not to tell the people who aren’t writing for TNG, but should be, to just “step up to the plate”. There has to be a certain degree of outreach if TNG wants to adhere the label of “diverse” to their blog. It is the responsibility of TNG to cultivate an environment where people like the original poster and the POC who have commented feel like their voices won’t be silenced or dismissed by a couple of pretentious, uptight white fags who walk onto this blog and act like their experiences being gay invalidates or serves as an equivalent to the experiences of POC and gender variant people across a lifetime and throughout history.
Is this what group therapy is like?
This is my take on everything I’ve read here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDbGqJ2KYk
Btw, I love Eminem.
Meaghan, might I ask in all seriousness, why it is that you, a white lesbian, feel you can speak for QPOCs and transgendered persons?
meaghan – fine. then what is your solution? you just seem to be throwing around buzz words and attempting to insult gay white men. you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to shut down and be dismissive of others’ efforts to create community just because you’ve read some sociology books and resent gay white privelege in DC, to the extent that that exists.
You can’t just say, we’re all in the same boat, there’s no problem, and if there is, it’s due to your own failures to get on board. This post, and the comments, are about inclusion and exclusion, which naturally are going to bring up questions of privilege. Whether you think it’s ridiculous or relevant not has a lot to do with which sorts of ways you personally feel marginalized. Let’s all calm down and try to be respectful and stop the name-calling, everyone. Yikes.
Meagan, I appreciate you taking so much time to comment here. These are a lot of viewpoints we haven’t seen before and the site is better for it. But I also have a genuine question: It seems like we’re stuck in a catch 22, where we’re not an inviting environment for POC/Trans because we don’t any such writers, but we don’t have any such writers because we’re not an inviting environment for POC/Trans. Believe me, we have done no small amount of outreach with very little result. It is frustrating for us as well. We welcome any more suggestions for fixing this, while also keeping in mind that it could be uncomfortable for both parties (as Natty Boom pointed out) to solicit someone for contribution purely because they are a minority. I think everyone will be better off for getting this remedied, but we apparently need some better strategies for making it happen.
Michael,
I’m not speaking for anyone, but I am speaking TO certain people. I’m highlighting the fallacies in the comparisons being made between being gay and being a POC and I’m also attempting to deconstruct the cisgendered and race-oriented privilege clearly in action in this discussion. Everything that I’m saying is as a white queer dyke, and if QPOC or gender variant folks would like to disagree or even just tell me to butt out, I’d be more than happy to do so.
Being white does not exclude me or dismiss me from the responsibility of paying attention to these things.
The only statement that I would clarify is where I expressed a supposition that the QPOC or gender variant folks in this discussion might feel silenced or dismissed by a couple of pretentious, uptight white fags. And while I might be going over the top with that assumption, I’m comfortable with saying that I would feel like shit as a woman who has faced similar dismissiveness.
Woah people. Parker, and the other founders of this site — THANK YOU for creating this space for us to have this awesome discussion. I know I was initially skeptical of this site because it was primarily white/gay/male at the beginning, but y’all begged me and people like me to participate, and now I’m actually happy to see a healthy number of women on this site. That wouldn’t have happened if you hadn’t tried, hard, to make it happen. You succeeded, and I’m really grateful for it.
I can understand why you may feel attacked and simultaneously frustrated when people point out the relative lack of POC on TNG. I know you’ve taken every opportunity to welcome people with different perspectives. However, I also think the suggestions that Meagan, natty Boom, and others have given, whatever their tone, are valid. There is no one solution and there never will be. Creating an inclusive community online, especially when a correspondingly inclusive community doesn’t really exist elsewhere, is difficult and will take time. It also requires outreach. I would never have come to this site, and eventually posted on it, if people hadn’t repeatedly come up to me and asked me to.
Please don’t just throw up your hands or get defensive and attack people who are trying to help. I know it’s hard and nobody should expect you to be saints. I appreciate your efforts, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who does.
Can we try and make this less of a fight and more of a brainstorming session… or something? Again, I’d love to help throw an inclusive party, if anyone’s up for that…
Zack,
I cannot make any direct suggestions for how to acquire a more diverse staff. I cannot speak to what POC and trans folk would like to see or hear in order to make writing for TNG more appetizing. I realize that TNG is in a predicament, but as a white queer person who contributes regularly, I cannot necessarily provide advice that would be tailored to or ideal for the communities that need recognition here. The only suggestion I have is asking people and listening, including folks who have commented here. There may be changes required before TNG becomes a welcoming environment for non-white, non-cisgendered writers.
I do agree that patriarchy and hierarchy, unfortunately, bleeds into many of our individual and cultural choices. How can it not? It’s what we were raised in, our bread and butter.
The anger and rage around these issues is so strong, and yet, I wonder how we best use those feelings. What do we honestly do about that?
Do we call people hosting these discussions and providing space for it “pretentious, uptight, white fags?” I somehow find it hard to believe that there aren’t clear overtones of patriarchal language in that, especially since so much of homophobia (as directed against queer men) is a direct outgrowth of misogyny.
How is that kind of language and attack helpful? The feelings are valid and can lead to powerful change within ourselves and our community. I think the challenge is directing it in a way that is truly transformative, instead of finger-pointing.
Having just seen the film “Gandhi,” I’m really reminded of that whole “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” I think that can definitely be applied to intra-group dynamics, where we spend so much time trying to figure out questions of identity that we very often resort to “the master’s tools” instead of discovering new ways to interact and develop.
One thing we’ve considered here at TNG is that we’ve realized the “gay mainstream” we’re against is generally “white, male and anti-intellectual.” We would like anyone who doesn’t fit that description completely to feel comfortable here and “carve out a niche” under the TNG banner.
What we might be learning is that there are a lot of people who don’t that description that have already found other gay subcultures in which they get the support they need. DC has a thriving QPOC community, with several venues just for them. Do we expect TNG to be fully representative of their community? Not necessarily. We’d welcome their involvement, we’d all be better off if we had it, and we have reached out to them in the past and will continue to do so in the future, but maybe they’re just getting their needs met elsewhere. You can’t criticize TNG for not helping establish their community, because they already have one. I know we have QPOC readers who like our music coverage and event recommendations and even submit posts occasionally. Perhaps they feel more comfortable in the TNG community than in the traditional QPOC spaces? I don’t know. But I’m glad they’re here participating and adding their voices to the conversation.
While we have no trans “staff” members listed on the site, we have had many submissions from trans-folks or about trans-oriented events. The simple fact that we posted this submission should be indication of our genuine interest in creating greater inclusiveness and understanding in the queer community of DC.
Thanks for the comments, muddiboots. If you want to help throw an inclusive party, please help us get the word out about Homo/Sonic. We want the XXs,XYs and everyone in between of every color to come out and enjoy our event. That is, unless they expect to hear Whitney Houston remixes all night long.
i think it’s a fascinating conversation.
it’s clear that efforts to recruit any kind of people to a cause/a party/whatever for any reason are going to be met with indifference unless there is a sufficient level of transparency and a value proposition in which both parties are interested. some people are never going to care and they shouldn’t be lambasted for this ’cause they’re probably picking different struggles for themselves (like, even ones that aren’t about gender if you can imagine a world where people have other problems, ie. making rent and affording child care). as djs/promoters/blog content developers/community organizers, the only thing over which you have control is the environment you’re trying to create (the space, the music, the theme, the content, the message etc.). you don’t get to control the people and that’s a wonderful thing. you get to constantly try, fail, succeed, stagnate, etc. and then try all over again. so go for it! let your undergarments get into a tight enough wad until you get agitated enough that you make something better.
i agree with greg and say go with ghandi. the gentle are remembered the longest…
Contextually, my “pretentious, uptight, white fags” comment may have very well come off as a pejorative jab, and if there are people who cringed or felt particularly wounded by that comment, I apologize. I don’t use the word fag in a derogatory manner (I identify very strongly as one, honestly), and in this case I did not either. But I can understand how my tone could’ve given people that impression. And for that I am sorry.
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
oh so now your excluding whitney houston fans! that’s just fucking great!
“How will I know, if Adam really loves me….
I say a prayer, with Ev-er-Y, snarky comment..”
(sung to the beat of “Whitney Houston’s “How Will I Know”)
I’ve actually played that song at the very first TNG party. However, I will walk out if we play any Canadian music.
Notice, I said “remixes” and “all night long.” An original Whitney song here and there is fine. Whitney fans welcome.
lol Adam isn’t here. :)
This is actually Chris; I don’t know why I’m suddenly posting as muddiboots, but I’ll change back as soon as I can!
As far as party promos go… I appreciate your throwing a dance party, but I’m not a homo, unless you mean homo sapiens. I’m something in between.
Yes, I know, we’ve had a lot of debates about language here, but I think this illustrates what I feel to be a bigger point: when people plan anything that they hope will include certain people without first consulting those people, sometimes they end up with an event that people feel shut out of. Maybe not intentionally excluded, but still not as welcome.
I think the best way to overcome that, honestly, is to include all the people from the planning stages on. So, to throw a party that includes QPOC, bi people, trans people, and whoever else, ask all of us to participate, starting with the planning process. Get us to throw the party with you, whether it’s by reaching out to the various blogs and hosting a planning chat with everyone, or asking for submissions from all the blogs, or whatever.
This is what I mean when I say I’m offering to help put together an inclusive party. If it’s truly going to be inclusive, all of us need to have a reason to show up. And an implicit guarantee that other people like us will be in the room. The easiest way to do that is to plan it together. Kind of like throwing a block party with your neighbors instead of inviting your neighbors to the party in your backyard.
Does that make sense?
“Homo/Sonic: An Alternative Co-Ed Dance Party for Queer Folks and Their Friends.”
Chris, aren’t you bi? Do you have queer friends? You’re invited.
1) mudddiboots/chris, i agree wholeheartedly. there’s a huge difference between building and creating a community (or party, or org, or… blog) together, and inviting/encouraging ppl to come in to an established community, etc.
2) as someone previously claimed, i’m not bashing TNG. i have a couple friends who are contributors, i attend some of the events, and i obviously care enough about this site to take time from my day job to post on here. but similarly to how i feel about be bar wed. while i am a supporter, i also find it important to think critically about these things.
3) michael and jenny, thanks for the offer to become a regular contributor. i’ve actually mentioned a few ideas to Coach. unfortunately, i don’t have the availability. if you wanna see what i’m doing instead of posting on TNG, check us out – girlsrockdc.org!
4) parker, too bad u don’t wanna party with me now! even zack knows i’m a good time ;)
Hey everyone! I invite you to come to Bebar tonight to talk about this further and better yet make the space your own by showing up, inviting your friends and have a great time with us.
The party is about the people who attend not about the label.
Ken
Wow.
Okay let me first state this. I was not intending the original post to come off as sexist, divisive or that this is a major issue, more of an issue sensitivity that I felt like writing on. The fact is the history regarding the inclusion is actually a pretty divisive, so it was hard to make the critique less divisive.
I have been meaning to write something on this for awhile. The issue of inclusion is a sensitive one in the trans community, especially with trans women who identify as queer. It is one of the lesser issues out there, but its still there and still important.
With that being said, I am a huge supporter of women’s nights and bars, as well as the need for them. I have had more than my share of harassment and putting up with men being inconsiderate myself. I don’t like being hit on by guys, I get enough of that walking down the street, and guys are frequently inconsiderate of women in bars, whether they are gay or straight. Lesbian bars and ladies nights are one of the few places I have to relax, dance or talk to my friends without having to put up with the behavior of men. There is a necessity for these venues. When I wrote this, I felt that it is often forgotten that a trans woman, like myself, also need these women’s spaces and should be included, but also there needs to be a better understanding of trans perspectives in general.
I also wrote this though because often my female identity, and the identity of many trans people, is often dismissed or ignored. I felt this was the case with BeBar’s original marketing, so I felt the critique was valid. I am well aware that the marketing people for the bar and the ownership were are fault for this mistake, not the women who attend or the lesbian community. In many ways, despite a negative past history, and some issues that still need to be worked out, the lesbian community for the most part is rather open minded and informed with regards to trans issues these days. I know that the lesbian community is still evolving with regards to these issues as well. However, gay men are still pretty ignorant and often hostile with regards to the concerns of both women and trans people. Again I see the marketing at BeBar as a mistake of ignorance regarding a sensitive subject, rather than one of hostility or sexism. The lesbian community is just more exposed to trans people in general, trans women frequently transition to find themselves part of this community, and many trans men have at least spent some time in this community. Gay men on the other hand are just not as exposed, so they do not quite grasp trans perspectives. I am not saying all gay men are unaware or that all of my lesbian sisters are enlightened, rather that there is a greater degree of exposure in the lesbian community. Because the queer women’s community is more exposed they are more aware of certain issues and sensitivities.
I highly recommend reading Julia Serano’s Whipping Girl, it is much more detailed about why the issue of trans-inclusive women’s spaces is important to trans women.
With regards to many (if not most) trans people identifying as queer. Well the sexual orientation of trans women has been frequently studied, anywhere from 50-60% of trans women identify as lesbian or bisexual in these studies, and yes, the studies are inclusive of racial and ethnic minority populations. What I made is a general statement though, and not one that was intended to be reflective of the trans population within DC.
I mentioned queer identity though because these identity issues are frequently very important to trans people in general. Straight trans people frequently do not like being identified as queer, and queer trans people are often adamant about their identities. Identity in general is a big deal to trans people, and it is sometimes hard to grasp if you are not trans yourself.
I cannot speak as a person of color. I feel wrong speaking on the prison and police issue with regards to trans people in DC. There are better individuals to talk about these issues who are closer to the subject. All I can talk about is my personal perceptions as a younger bisexual/queer trans woman within the lesbian community. I know there are more important issues out there. But airing out these smaller issues sometimes avoids problems with regards to the big ones. It allows for a greater degree of understanding and dialog. I am writing to add a different perspective, one that is not frequently heard. I am not a representative of all trans people either, I just represent my own perceptions, opinions, and experiences.
Tina T.
thanks so much Tina for this post.
Thank you Tina for the issues you bring up.
If you would like to talk to me at Bebar tonight I would love it.
The owner of Bebar does not want to change the name so we all have to figure out a way to make this space inclusive and sensitive to our identities.
Looking forward to meeting you.
All the best,
Ken
the promoter of Be:xx
reading this is funny… because i’m pretty sure that bebar wednesdays has the most diverse and friendly crowd i’ve experienced in dc, gay or straight venue.
see you guys (and girls… and whatever else) next wednesday!
I wanted to jump in and follow up on a few things. I spoke in length with Tina last night, but I won’t go into detail about our discussion. I would like to say that I’m thankful for her presence in our community and I’m equally thankful for her courage to speak up.
Although I commend her for coming forward, I don’t agree with everything she said in her original piece. Specifically, she focused on some of her transmale friends’ experiences in a way that implied that most transmen feel the same way. There are people who do in fact share those feelings that she addressed, but in fact, many of us transmen and genderqueer folk do not share those feelings.
After speaking extensively with Tina I was able to get to the heart of the issue. I hesitate to use the word ‘issue’ as I think the big picture of trans discrimination is much larger and more complicated than a single moment in time. The issue for Tina wasn’t so much the name be: xx, rather it was more about how the specific words in the very first ad left out transwomen.
I was privy to the thought process behind the be: xx party before the first ad ever hit the papers. Before I recall the initial words used in the ad, I want to emphasize that transwomen were not intentionally left out. This does not excuse what happened however.
From the get-go we wanted to change the face of the ‘typical’ ladies night. Wednesday night at be bar was originally called be: 4her. The DC Kings were invited to help revamp the night, but we were not comfortable with the language that was being used. be: xx was essentially inspired from the XXBoys photo project, and when I first heard it, I didn’t think anything of it. The process of getting the name out to print happened so fast, that by the time we had an opportunity to really discuss it, it was too late. The name stuck and it’s well-liked by management. From that point on we were dedicated to doing everything we could to put as little focus on the XX chromosome concept as possible. It has become more of an X factor idea, as the makeup of the people who attend the night are truly the X factor of our wonderful queer community.
The original ad said the following: “be: xx every Wednesday, a new weekly playground for butches, femmes, dykes, Andros, genderqueers, and transpeople who share the XX chromosome. “
The artwork was done by Be Bar’s graphic designer who ignored our request not to use chromosome imagery. I honestly don’t remember if the “who share the XX chromosome” was attached to the language by one of us or by the bar. I do, however, have no doubt the intent was to tie everything into the XX marketing concept. It was a mistake, certainly a bad mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. I believe this to be true because the language “Andros, genderqueers, and transpeople” was not used in a transmale specific way. That same language was never used again, the whole XX chromosome theme was changed and the ad you see posted at the top of page was its replacement.
Without going into a slew of details about ALL of the different types of identities we were trying to validate (for example butch women are having an increasingly hard time being accepted within Lesbian circles, specifically white circles), the intent of creating something other than a ‘typical’ ladies night was to reach out to folks who have been feeling left out of the queer party scene.
I tend to be an optimist. I believe this dialogue and the many months of internal dialogue that revolved around this very same issue prior to this article show that progress is being made. I also think it shows that inclusion, for us at least, is not just on the surface. It’s not limited to a series of words, but it’s truly and honestly felt and wanted by many of us. It’s one thing to say ‘welcome transfolk’ as so many people do, and it’s another to open up your arms and invite folks in as friends and not just patrons.
On a personal note, I hope that Tina and other transwomen who were hurt by the original ad feel that their feelings are not only acknowledged but also validated. We will continue to do our best to make the night as inclusive, interesting, supportive, unique and exciting as it can be.
Thanks Alex for posting this. This is the advertisement I had issue with originally and I credit you for clarifying the language I had a specific issue with. I apologize if I could not get the specific language myself that I had issue with, but what you are putting forth was the language at issue.
As I stated to you I really do not have an issue with the name myself. My problem was with the language original advertisement, and from what it sounds like somewhere an advertising person mucked up what was originally intended by adding language, and as a result the ad came off as insensitive to trans women. A few words can often have a big impact, especially when there is specific sensitivities regarding particular issues. I think if it did not include the language, I am not sure I would have ever written this blog post, because it sounds the original intent of the language was meant to be inclusive. Mistakes were made.
The point of much of what I wrote is it is best to be aware of these sensitivities. As stated earlier, these may be little issues, but understanding and discussing the little issues sheds greater light and understanding with regards to the importance of the big ones.
I should note, I do enjoy Wednesday nights at BeBar, it is an open atmosphere. I know much of what I posted was critical, and it seemed that I did not have many nice things to say. The truth is I love the actual space and the fact I do have something to do on Wednesdays.
Tina T.
I hope that the Phase 1 policy is mis-stated here. As presented, this is an on-its-face violation of the DC Human Rights Act. The club would be in jeapardy of lawsuit and more.
Gay/lesbian/queer people go to gay/les/queer bars so they can meet people they can have sex with or date, which non gay/les/queer bars just fail in that dept. This is why the gay and lesbian community is fractured along gender lines, everywhere, because they look to meet that special someone. They usually base this on believed genitals, sometimes they’ll base it on secondary sex characteristics, rarely do they base it on identity alone.
Due to sexism/patriarchy, lesbians are more likely to as individuals, and on the whole, have less resources than gay men. Women still make about 67c to a mans $1 in the US, for example. So girl parties start with less capital, etc.
Gay/queer trans men want to be at the boy parties and not at the girl parties, except maybe if their friend is dj or whatever (ie social exceptions). Lesbian/queer trans women want to be at the lesbian parties and not at the boy parties. And in general, trans people dont neccessarily want to be at the party with other trans ppl, because their is only so much trans-friendly gay booty to go around.But inevitably, nontrans fags wont go to trans or lesbian parties and are sketchy about hooking up with tguys unless they are very well- assimilated tguys, or til they find out theyre trans, Lesbians will hit on trans guys or each other, and dont want the tgirls at their parties, or at best the tgirls are totally ignored, except the hi-femmes who some fags will molest, which the tgirls find offensive. And at a mixed race party, there’s very little interacial hooking up, in my experience, an dvery little cultural overlap, ie music, which most club nights are built around the dj’s.
Add to this that when we look at the gay magazines, ads etc, and the mainstream as well, muscular white non trans men are the ideal. Queer people already walk around enough thinking they are ugly and unlovable- and moreso because they are trans, because they are brown/black, because they are “too” fat or “too” fem. It is so hard for people to just feel good about themselves as gay people and to have fun and love each other. And I know this goes for white non trans gay men too. I think the *fundamental* thing everyone here so far seems to be missing as im reading- and its been a great read- is there’s no point in going to a party if there is no possibility of you getting laid or potential lovers phone #. POC, trans, fat, fem etc leave white-”masc-only”-male-dominated parties feeling ugly and hating themselves. In which case they might as well go to straight bar.
Gay/lesbian/queer people go to gay/les/queer bars so they can meet people they can have sex with or date, which non gay/les/queer bars just fail in that dept. This is why the gay and lesbian community is fractured along gender lines, everywhere, because they look to meet that special someone. They usually base this on believed genitals, sometimes they’ll base it on secondary sex characteristics, rarely do they base it on identity alone.
Due to sexism/patriarchy, lesbians are more likely to as individuals, and on the whole, have less resources than gay men. Women still make about 67c to a mans $1 in the US, for example. So girl parties start with less capital, etc.
Gay/queer trans men want to be at the boy parties and not at the girl parties, except maybe if their friend is dj or whatever (ie social exceptions). Lesbian/queer trans women want to be at the lesbian parties and not at the boy parties. And in general, trans people dont neccessarily want to be at the party with other trans ppl, because their is only so much trans-friendly gay booty to go around.But inevitably, nontrans fags wont go to trans or lesbian parties and are sketchy about hooking up with tguys unless they are very well- assimilated tguys, or til they find out theyre trans, Lesbians will hit on trans guys or each other, and dont want the tgirls at their parties, or at best the tgirls are totally ignored, except the hi-femmes who some fags will molest, which the tgirls find offensive. And at a mixed race party, there’s very little interacial hooking up, in my experience, an dvery little cultural overlap, ie music, which most club nights are built around the dj’s.
Add to this that when we look at the gay magazines, ads etc, and the mainstream as well, muscular white non trans men are the ideal. Queer people already walk around enough thinking they are ugly and unlovable- and moreso because they are trans, because they are brown/black, because they are “too” fat or “too” fem. It is so hard for people to just feel good about themselves as gay people and to have fun and love each other. And I know this goes for white non trans gay men too. I think the *fundamental* thing everyone here so far seems to be missing as im reading- and its been a great read- is there’s no point in going to a party if there is no possibility of you getting laid or potential lovers phone #. POC, trans, fat, fem etc leave white-”masc-only”-male-dominated parties feeling ugly and hating themselves. In which case they might as well go to straight bar.
“I hope that the Phase 1 policy is mis-stated here. As presented, this is an on-its-face violation of the DC Human Rights Act. The club would be in jeapardy of lawsuit and more.”
Give me a break. God forbid a bar, or better said a DC landmark, attempt to create a safe space for women who love women.
Trans women are welcome there so no problem on that front.
Trans men are also welcome there with the understanding that it is a Lesbian bar before it is anything else. As a Trans man I don’t see any issue with this, considering I lived the bulk of my life (and still do in a lot of cases) as a woman, I find it fundamental and frankly my job to support spaces for women.
What that means to me personally is I go to the phase. I have friends at the phase. I don’t hit on women at the phase. If I am hit on by someone at the phase, I make it a point to be transparent about who I am.
That’s my choice. I know there are plenty of trans guys that don’t feel that way and that’s their deal.
As for men. Gay men, which often are obviously gay, can come in without an escort.
Straight men, more than anyone else, must HAVE a female escort. I don’t see a problem with that, and if the DC Human Rights Act was built to protect them over a marginalized community then I see no reason to support it.
Which sucks.
The fact of the matter is that all types of men, people for that matter, patronize the phase and enjoy being there. The intent of the policy, more than anything else, is to provide a safer place for women. Its also to keep the ratio of men to women in the favor of those women.
There are all kinds of places in the city that violate this DC HRA policy. Do you really want to pick on one that actually does something good for this community?
My guess is that you don’t give a rats ass about the community as a whole. You probably only care about your own little self absorbed box.
I guess now I’m just being mean. I kind of feel like the Queer community has gone soft and our personal ego’s have taken a forefront to the greater good of fighting for equal rights.
When society catches up and people learn how to treat people different than them with respect Phase 1 won’t need the policy they have.
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